supersaver

Poll

Litteracy; is it truly needed?

YES!!!!!
54 (62.1%)
NO!!!!!
33 (37.9%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Voting closed: October 24, 2007, 10:47:21 PM

Author Topic: The growing illiteracy of the internet.  (Read 8298 times)

Offline Masha

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«: October 24, 2007, 10:47:21 PM»
Truly, I am ready to start flaying the idiots.

It is sad. Anywhere and everywhere I go, pure and total illiteracy. What has happened to the English language? And I am not merely speaking of netspeak; the major lack of grammar, of punctuation, and the lack of spelling correctness.

And...and..and....even worse. They are PROUD of it. Whenever I confront someone on their continuous mistakes, they gather their army of illiterate friends, and start bashing me as a grammar elitist, and how they are doing nothing wrong, and how "it is just a game. As long as everyone knows what we're saying, who cares if it is spelled/punctuated/grammatically correct??"

I do. I am sick of being surrounded by this idiocy; and how no one will do anything about it, how no one tries to better themselves from it. Am I honestly the only case of self improvement?? Am I honestly the only one who CARES? Who WANTS to read correctly? Who wants to be viewed as INTELLIGENT?

I....I am having a hard time expressing exactly how much this irks me.

I am sick of them mixing of the yours. "Your not nice!" "This is you'res!" Or, even better, "Ur not nice!", ect..

Oh, a quote from earlier... "tach, your a idiot"

........

Conversation: On the growing illiteracy, whether you approve of it or not, how you feel about it. Personal experiences, ect.


Offline Hugo

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #1: October 24, 2007, 11:27:19 PM»
There's a book called Eats, Shoots & Leaves; have a read.

_________________

Bayleigh

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #2: October 24, 2007, 11:39:37 PM»
I do feel that it's retarded to be illiterate. I mean.. How hard is it to add two letters in front of your 'u'? HOW HARD IS IT TO SPEND FIVE MINUTES STUDYING HOW TO USE PROPER GRAMMAR? I mean, come on. I had grammar down like it was on a cheat sheet in the third grade. HELLO. It's not that hard to know what's what, and what's not. Typos, understandable. ALL THE TIME? No. Sorry. No one makes typos for a living. You really did it. Go back to first grade and learn it, or you're going to be bashed. Sorry! <3

Offline Hugo

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #3: October 24, 2007, 11:48:18 PM»
You post that but then I look at your sig..

_________________

Offline Masha

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #4: October 24, 2007, 11:52:26 PM»
Quote from: "Hugo"
There's a book called Eats, Shoots & Leaves; have a read.


I did. I loved it.

Offline Hyorin

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #5: October 25, 2007, 12:19:48 AM»
i don't use capitalization and when with my friends, i do use netspeak. i don't have a problem with it, personally. this is the net; in an effort to be able to communicate as quickly as we do through the phone, i use shorthands, abbreviations, etc.

yes, i can capitalize when i want to. but i just don't want to. i'm far from illiterate, though.

as for those who are seriously illiterate... well, no point getting worked up over it. i can understand them and as long as i get what they're trying to say, then it's fine with me. for others it can be different, but there's no n00b-be-gone spray, and they're gonna stick around for as long as they damn well like. eventually you'll just have to numb yourself to them. ignoring them is a sure-fire way to end communication. xD

Quote
Who wants to be viewed as INTELLIGENT?


when people are illiterate, it doesn't insult your intelligence. it insults their own. :lol:

Offline MAU

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #6: October 25, 2007, 06:23:43 AM»
it doesn't really bother me to be entirely honest. i'll roleplay gladly with anyone regardless of how they type due to the fact that i feel its petty to focus on who sounds literate and who doesn't. if its going to be that much of a headache, just stay away from them. for instance, i don't use capital letters and i'm sure i don't punctuate properly most of the time. i don't consider myself highly illiterate but some people have, and if it really bothers you that much just don't roleplay/talk to me, but please don't try and convince me what i'm doing is wrong.

sure its sad to see a bunch of stupid, illiterate people in real life; but when it comes to typing? just relax behind it. this generation disappoints me in many ways, but typing illiteracy isn't one of them.

by the way, you may want to fix your poll. ;)

Bayleigh

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #7: October 25, 2007, 07:32:44 AM»
Quote from: "Hugo"
You post that but then I look at your sig..

You think we talk like that all the time, because we did it once? :l I try to have fun, yeah. And we, personally, like to mock people, and use netspeak in the process. That wasn't to mock, but it was fun, and we laughed about it. How much of a giggle would we have lost if we hadn't posed as retards through it? We wouldn't have even done it to begin with if we were such grammar gurus that we just sat in our fucking thrones, sipped our tea and talked about the weather. Jesus.

Vince

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #8: October 25, 2007, 08:19:22 AM»
I'm pretty literate, and I can type with pretty good grammar. but then again i sometimes talk like this not even using any punctuation. and i only do it because im lazy and know it's just a game.

(Just one question mark, please. Lern2punctuate.)

Bayleigh

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #9: October 25, 2007, 08:40:47 AM»
I don't mind things, like Mauser and Dyke said about lower casing and little to no punctuation. az lng az u dnt tlk lyk diz on reg basiz, ur gud.

Offline Sync

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #10: October 25, 2007, 09:14:21 AM»
i don't capatalize anything because i'm too damn lazy to and pretty much everyone gets the gist of what i'm saying.

i think it's really stupid when people bash other people who "improper use of grammar". it's really stupid and those people need to get lives. just put the idiot on ignore and be on your merry way because bashing them isn't going to help at all, it's just going to make you look like an asshole and maybe a hypocrite.

like this person who told me
"You should learn how to speel better"

and this person
"Learn how to use grammer, moron"

anddd what masuer said. if you bashing bad grammar, your poll should be using it, too. LIKE WHAT I SAID EARLIER, MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A HYPOCRITE

Offline Narnia

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #11: October 25, 2007, 01:43:40 PM»
The largest problem with this issue is that many people in their teens and early twenties, who have been long time online chatters (and more recently texters) begin to incorporate this 'online' language into academic and business work. More and more, users rely upon spell check to always be right at work because they don't know how to spell. Users begin to think that certain sentence structures are acceptable because they've phrased it that way online. Many users have no sense of grammar for the fact that it is never used.

You think I'm kidding, but wait until you run across the person in college who has used lol in a paper, or some net-word that is not proper English. That's when you'll realize how bad this issue is. It's not a problem if its only confined to internet applications, but your habits follow you everywhere.

Throughout this thread, you should refrain from referring to anyone as illiterate. Because someone netspeaks, does not make them illiterate. If someone is truly illiterate you will not be talking to them on Furcadia. The definition if being illiterate is the inability to read or write. Just because someone does read or write the way you want them to, doesn't mean they aren't literate.

As a side note, if you ever see a message from me that lacks proper capitalization and punctuation you can safely assume it's not me and should promptly report me. Even when I'm drunk, I still manage to type and text with capitalization and punctuation.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline io

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #12: October 25, 2007, 02:31:51 PM»
Actually, Furcadia helped me with my grammar. I failed nearly all of my spelling tests before I started playing. But I don't always use proper punctuation and capitalization because I do get lazy and it is just a game. For something important, though, like for school, my grammar matters a lot to me, and I make sure everything I write is correct. It might be the same for a lot of people on Furc.  :o

Offline Kratos

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #13: October 25, 2007, 02:50:36 PM»
when i used to RP ferals (hahahaha i hate myself for saying this), i had a somewhat poor vocabulary, and over the few years i RPed like that, my vocabulary grew extensively. my grammar improved dramatically as well.

i choose to type without capitals, and usually without punctuation (periods, i use commas tyvm) because quite frankly, i'm lazy, and i don't really care. if i'm typing a paper or notes for a class or something like that, i use proper capitalization, grammar, and punctuation, but as long as i'm on the internet doing my own thing? who cares?

if it bothers you that much, as said before, you can just ignore me. don't rant to me about how much you hate it, especially if you're going to be hypocritical and fuck up "your" and "you're" or something similar. hypocrisy doesn't help much on your end.

p.s. this is a general statement and is not targeting anyone in particular.
i felt i should include this just to make sure nobody thinks i'm ranting about them. ty.

Offline Hyorin

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #14: October 25, 2007, 03:27:34 PM»
the only thing that ticks me off is 'wolfspeak' (though i'm aware it can be used for anthro/furry rp as well) which is when people use nonexistant words, like aud, to describe ears because they don't want to use ears more than once in a roleplay.

if there was ever such thing as 'online illiteracy', then 'wolfspeak' would be a prime example...

Offline Sync

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #15: October 25, 2007, 03:40:23 PM»
Quote from: "Tan"

i choose to type without capitals, and usually without punctuation (periods, i use commas tyvm) because quite frankly, i'm lazy, and i don't really care. if i'm typing a paper or notes for a class or something like that, i use proper capitalization, grammar, and punctuation, but as long as i'm on the internet doing my own thing? who cares?


same for me lol
i only type like this internet-wise.

Offline anathema

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #16: October 25, 2007, 04:52:18 PM»
the only time i tend to use proper spelling and capitalization is when i'm writing a paper for school or in an argument. generally, even in notes for school i use a lot of shorthand.

Offline Julie

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #17: October 25, 2007, 05:00:22 PM»
i spell what i can. i dont use punctuation most of the time, except for commas and ./!/?. when i'm talking to someone i'm just meeting, however, i use correct capitolizations (if its somene from FAM, for example, or just a complete stranger that happened to miswhisper me. ) sometimes i have Word up to help me spell some harder words.

Offline anathema

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #18: October 25, 2007, 07:21:44 PM»
Quote from: "Julie"
i spell what i can. i dont use punctuation most of the time, except for commas and ./!/?. when i'm talking to someone i'm just meeting, however, i use correct capitolizations (if its somene from FAM, for example, or just a complete stranger that happened to miswhisper me. ) sometimes i have Word up to help me spell some harder words.


why would you have word up, just search dictionary.com.

Offline Masha

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #19: October 25, 2007, 09:54:21 PM»
The response... is poorer than expected. But, what am I to expect? No one really sees the importance of intelligent typing skills. Surely, I will be flamed for this; but, one thing I can say, is the response here is not nearly as repulsive as the one I received on Gaia.

Let me clear up what I meant to portray, as I was in a rather emotional spirit when I wrote the topic (Anyone knowing me and my emotions, will know that I can be very hard to understand, then.).

When I mean illiteracy, I mean a total lack of knowledge of how the language is to be used. I did use the word wrong, if you will excuse me. Long discussions with friends have left the word to refer to such as I think. A slang term, more or less.

I do not mind a general lack of capitalization. That is not the most serious problem, as not even I hit the shift key in time, or even think to. The problem I am adressing is the constant run-on sentances, the slamming together of multiple thoughts, the many things that could be take many ways, if not applicated with the proper punctuation.

Many of you have pointed to my use of "!!!!". First of all, I would like to ask, is that the only thing you can think to flame me on? Even the idiots on Gaia could think of a better way to do so. Secondly, an excess amount of exclamation signs can also mean a louder response, a more passionate response. While not to be used in absolute proper filing papers, it is easily accepted in literature, and letters.

Another thing I would like to announce is that this is hardly all happening on Furcadia. I have posted this message in many places, places where it is common to happen. Places such as Fur Nation, Gaia Online, ect., as also in such places you cannot simply `ignore them.

My main worry about this degradation of the English language is that, over time, as all of you know, these little "enhancements" to our text language change. And as they change, they obviously become more confusing, can even be mixed up with other words.

You see, that is the beauty of the English language: so many of our words sound alike, but mean completely different things (as I have pointed out with the "your" subject). But, to compensate for this, we spell them all differently. But, when "illiterate" (The term I use to desribe those who are 'less educated', or merely 'don't care'.) peoples come to this Internet--and to their real lives-- and mix up the spellings as such, obviously there will be confusion.

Or, even better. These "under educated" people will think their mispellings are correct, and be confused by the proper spellings, and be confused, themselves! As confused as I myself might be to their wrong spellings.

Our language has evolved for many a year. Before, it used to be written and read only by the rich, and as such, they had never truly thought to give it set rules. But, now that we do have set rules, would it simply not be easier to learn and follow these rules, than to disregaurd them, and usher in confusion?

Our language has these rules for a reason, as you can see.

Now, to adress the growing faction of the "It's just a game"rs. Yes, it is "just a game". But, even if it is a game, should you still not strive to communicate coharently? The occasional typos, mispellings, and, as many of you so love to point out, excess of punctuation, is fine. It is to be expected; we are, after all, only human. But the degree to which the masses mash the language, makes the communication nearly impossible, for those who do not easily understand, who have not evolved with, these mistakes.

Once more, to the It's Just a Gamers, when, in any game (but for Disney games, and children's games--the mispellings here are considered 'cute' to the masses.) have you ever seen such bad language? Do you honestly think the people who rewrite the text of the Final Fantasy series from the original, for us to understand, could get away with mis-using the language by simply shrugging their shoulders and saying, "It's just a game"?

For those of you who think I take things too seriously-- if I don't take it seriously, who will? If someone doesn't adress it, who will? If no one adresses it, if every one were to just meld into the crowd of blind sheep, there would soon be no set rules for me to complain about, now would there? Eventually, there would likely be no English language. Just something foreign, confusing, and wrong. Something so hard to understand, that fights and anger erupt, from where words had meant to be used in love and kindness.

I do not want to live in that world, and ignoring it is not the answer, as that lets it merely fester and spread, to where one will soon be enveloped by the disease.

Yes, these views might be a tad extreme, but I am not the only one who feels this way.

Now, I will take a break, and let you all read and digest this. This time around, I want thought out responses. No rubbish. No flames. This is to be a discussion, not a flame fest, not somewhere to nitpick at others.

My writing has been in general terms, pointed at no one. I would appreciate it if your writing is the same.

Offline Narnia

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #20: October 25, 2007, 10:48:34 PM»
I can't keep a neutral post when address your arguments.

You claim that your problem is that people are 'abusing' the English language. How about the fact that English is one of the most difficult languages in the world to learn, and even worse write. When speaking to people online you have to take into consideration that English is possibly foreign to them. Because they are either young and under educated, or from another country which does not speak English as a primary language. Assuming that we are ONLY talking about Americans (and to an extent the British and the Australians) who are of the proper age and intellect to comprehend the proper use of the English language, are we to be surprised that it been degraded? Some American students are unable to locate America on a map, and you expect them to use comma without run on sentences or comma splices?

The English language has more rules and more exceptions than almost any other language known to man. We expect a comma here, but not here. Or a colon, or semi-colon. What about the proper use of hyphens? How about the proper use of quotations? What about quotes inside of quotes? What about the proper use of tense? What about i before e, except after c or when sounding like 'a' in neighbor or weigh? The list goes on and on.

What you have termed the degradation of the English language may very well be the evolution. Think back a few years ago. The term "to google" would never have been acceptable, but not means to perform a search online. The idea of texting wasn't even conceived of. In fact, the use of acronyms in the English Language is at an all time high. Is this the degradation of a language, or is that adaptation of a language to a new form of media? When we moved from radio only broadcasts to television we lost a lot of beauty in the language. We no longer described things with flowery language. Is that so different now that people want to say things now and expect things instant? The internet is adding flavor and flair with all of our new expressions.

Quote from: "[url=http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/216765/the_evolution_of_language.html
The Evolution of Language[/url]"]The Internet has done fabulous things for us. We now have access to unlimited amounts of information. Need to learn about osmosis? Look online! Need to know how to unclog that drain? Look online! Want to know if that new restaurant is any good? Look online! Need directions to that restaurant? Look online! What were the lyrics to that show's theme song? Download it! Have you been out of touch with a friend or relative? Send an email! Need to relay information quickly? Send an instant message. Yes, the Internet has undoubtedly changed the way we receive information, but it has also affected how our language has evolved.

I'm an instructor. My degree is in English and Philosophy. I teach College Writing, among a few other courses. However, you will not find a stuffy English teacher's commentary here. Any student of English or languages will tell you that language evolves. It's true! Consider the following example:

Me thynketh it acordaunt to resoun

To telle yow al the condicioun

Of ech of hem, so as it semed me,
And whiche they weren, and of what degree,
And eek in what array that they were inne;

This is from Geoffrey Chaucer's Canterbury Tales (General Prologue). It is written in Middle English. Middle English is not a variation of the English language, but a period of its evolution as a language.

The translation?

It seems to me in accord with reason
To tell you all the circumstances
Of each of them, as it seemed to me,

And who they were, and of what social rank,
And also what clothing that they were in;

Our example will serve as proof enough that language does indeed evolve. That is not what is under consideration. Our focus is why our language is evolving, and the importance of the changes taking place. We are witnessing a rapid evolution of the English language. While detractors (meaning those stuffy English instructors) may claim that we are witnessing a de-evolution, I disagree. Changes in language are changes, never 'good' or 'bad.'

Language evolves to suit our needs. When we needed a word that said "Oh, I'm an idiot!" we added "Doh!" to the dictionary. When the use of the word "ain't" became part of every day language, it too was added to the dictionary. Visit Merriam-Webster online to view some of the new words they've added to the Eleventh edition of their dictionary, including "spyware" and "mouse potato." So, "These words make sense," you say. "I can understand what they mean. They should be added to the dictionary. They are part of our vocabulary now." If they are part of our vocabulary, they are part of our language. Do you know what the following "words" mean?

zomg, lol, brb, bbl, w00t, afk, rofl, idk, idc and l33t*

This is Internet slang and leet speak. This form of our language is used online in emails, instant messages, text messages and some PC games. For many, these are comprehensible words, just like "spyware" and "mouse potato."

Many are opposed to this type of slang, claiming it denigrates the English language and detracts from the importance of learning "proper" English. However, this part of our language is adding to the richness and variety that is English. Our youth is taking our language and making it their very own. They claim ownership of it, and use it in creative and interesting ways. It isn't laziness. It's creativity. The Internet required us to find a new way in which to use our language. Saved keystrokes save time and energy. The more time and energy we have, the more productive we can become.

I don't recommend using Internet language on a resume or project proposal. I wouldn't appreciate a term paper written entirely in l33t sp34k. There is a proper place for this slang. But would it be so wrong to see this language on an office memo? After all, a memo is about relaying information quickly and accurately. I would love to read a term paper about l33t sp34k, or a short story that explores an online friendship, where dialogue often involves Internet slang.

My point is that we should not completely discredit this phase in our language's evolution. Rather than complaining and attempting to remove it, let's encourage its use in the proper context.

*translations

zomg - Oh My God (also omg)

lol - Laughing out Loud

brb - Be Right Back

bbl - Be Back Later

w00t - Woohoo! An exclamation of excitement (also woot)

afk, - Away From Keyboard

rofl - Rolling on the Floor Laughing

idk - I Don't Know

idc - I Don't Care

l33t - Elite (also leet)
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Vince

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #21: October 25, 2007, 10:50:58 PM»
tl;dr.

stop bitching, you hypocritical cunt.

if someone wants to type a certain way, let them. god forbid they actually type with regards to the english language. however, it's not your job to BAWWW about such things, nor is it your business. your opinions don't matter to the world.

if someone uses the wrong your/you're, whose/who's, their/there/they're, et cetera, on a fucking resume, the fucking people won't hire them for the most part.

i could pick out every single little shit you messed up on in your tl;dr shit, but that'd be pathetic.

--

also, narnia's post is tl;dr but from what i have scanned, it's saying how the english language has evolved so much. and being in ENGLISH LITERATURE HONORS, i can attest to that. people fucking spelled shit the way they PRONOUNCED it (for example if they pronounced "mother" as "meether," they spelled it "mither." lol edward, edward ftw.) because there WERE no rules to the english language.

Offline Hyorin

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #22: October 25, 2007, 10:59:42 PM»
this thread is officially flame bait. :?

like i stated before, i have no problem with illiteracy. words like btw, brb, and afk are just net shorthands. the english language is constantly evolving, and nothing is going to change that - not even the extermination of every person who is illiterate. O_O!!!

Quote
For those of you who think I take things too seriously-- if I don't take it seriously, who will? If someone doesn't adress it, who will? If no one adresses it, if every one were to just meld into the crowd of blind sheep, there would soon be no set rules for me to complain about, now would there? Eventually, there would likely be no English language. Just something foreign, confusing, and wrong. Something so hard to understand, that fights and anger erupt, from where words had meant to be used in love and kindness.

I do not want to live in that world, and ignoring it is not the answer, as that lets it merely fester and spread, to where one will soon be enveloped by the disease.


that sounds like one of those war proclamations. since when is misspelling a disease?

Offline Narnia

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #23: October 25, 2007, 11:02:13 PM»
If you are going to tl;dr, don't post.

I'm going to have this debate, and if you don't want to participate constructively then I'll make sure you don't participate at all.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Vince

The growing illiteracy of the internet.
«Reply #24: October 25, 2007, 11:03:52 PM»
Quote from: "Narnia"
If you are going to tl;dr, don't post.

I'm going to have this debate, and if you don't want to participate constructively then I'll make sure you don't participate at all.


i read it afterwards, thus my 325098 edits.