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Author Topic: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods  (Read 1067 times)

Offline Cougar

Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«: November 21, 2013, 06:59:22 PM»
An idea I've been tossing around for a while now is accepting Bitcoin as a payment method, either as a supplement to or (preferably) a replacement for PayPal. While there are still a few logistical issues to deal with on my end, not the least of which is the current lack of Bitcoin users compared to PayPal, it sounds like a viable alternative.

That being said, are there any foreseeable drawbacks? Converting to USD or goods after receipt is a non-issue, and fluctuations of the BC market can be accounted for at the time of sale. Is there something else overlooked?

Would rejecting PayPal payments outright in favor of Bitcoin turn too many potential buyers away at the gate?

Has anyone else considered bringing Furcadia to the Bitcoin market?
An Astonishing Armada of Awesome Alts, All Available for ASAP Acquisition!
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Offline Zim

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #1: November 21, 2013, 07:11:20 PM»
Quote
Would rejecting PayPal payments outright in favor of Bitcoin turn too many potential buyers away at the gate?

I'm going to say a huge YES on this one for a few reasons.

1.) There aren't many people who use bitcoins, and most of those people are adults, as opposed to the large teenage/young adult base we have on FAM.

2.) Paypal is much, much easier to use and work with, and is more accessible to the majority of internet users in general.

3.) The current buy price for bitcoins is over $720.

4.) Not everywhere accepts bitcoins, so most people aren't bothering with them (aside from the grossly inflated price)

5.) If a harddrive is corrupted, you could lose your bitcoin wallet. There's also security vulnerabilities with online wallets, which has prompted some recent drama on white hat hacker forums.

6.) The value of a bitcoin fluctuates. A LOT.

7.) Unline Paypal, even with its shitty buyer/seller protection, bitcoin has no protection at all.

8.) There's a cap on how many bitcoins are going to be produced, so there's risk for massive deflation.

9.) There's also no guarantee that bitcoin will last. If people stop using them, they will be worth absolutely nothing.

10.) Some people are leery of them because of their use in dodgy online markets.

All in all, I don't think it's worth it to go bitcoin completely. Perhaps, if you really, REALLY want to start accepting them, take it as an alternative payment method? The lack of bitcoin users is really a huge thing to keep in mind though.

Sources:

http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~eroberts/cs181/projects/2010-11/DigitalCurrencies/disadvantages/
http://www.electronicsweekly.com/mannerisms/dilemmas/downsides-to-bitcoin-2013-07/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45030812
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

I'm only mean out of necessity.

Offline Cougar

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #2: November 21, 2013, 07:36:12 PM»
Quote
Would rejecting PayPal payments outright in favor of Bitcoin turn too many potential buyers away at the gate?
1.) There aren't many people who use bitcoins, and most of those people are adults, as opposed to the large teenage/young adult base we have on FAM.
This is the biggest obstacle I foresaw, and dislike the idea of having to hold everyone's paw in the signup and transition phase. My hope is that young adults have the advantage of often being early adopters and not so set in their ways yet (vs. "PayPal is sacred, nothing can supersede"), and while I don't feel this is yet the case with Furcadia and Bitcoin, I'm not convinced that it can't happen given the right motivating forces. 1 user on FAM starts to accept Bitcoin payment, any users sign up?


3.) The current buy price for bitcoins is over $720.
Whole Bitcoins can be split into fractions though, right?

5.) If a harddrive is corrupted, you could lose your bitcoin wallet. There's also security vulnerabilities with online wallets, which has prompted some recent drama on white hat hacker forums.
While this may be an issue for common computer users, and a possible drawback for other Furcadians joining the Bitcoin market, backing things up has never been my personal failing.

Additionally, it would be my intent to keep my wallet as empty as possible at all times, specifically to prevent future devaluation but with the unintended consequence of not risking losing everything from a corrupted wallet. Not the sort of thing I expect normal people would be willing to do, but I'm anything but normal.

6.) The value of a bitcoin fluctuates. A LOT.
My plan for this is to flip them for USD or tangible goods upon receipt, while converting the current value of $5USD (or whatever the sale price) to the appropriate Bitcoin fraction at the time of sale.

7.) Unline Paypal, even with its shitty buyer/seller protection, bitcoin has no protection at all.
The biggest recent motivating factor, aside from the recent press and speculation on the Bitcoin market, is payment reversal. The whole Memories scam that affected so many users would never have happened if the payments were via Bitcoin - all payments are final!

Paypal's notorious track record of screwing both buyers and sellers with the "you have nowhere else to go" mentality has left them set for a mass exodus, there just needs to be a viable alternative to go to first. Just as Myspace moved to Facebook, some day Facebook too will move on to the next site. Paypal is not impervious to this.


All in all, I don't think it's worth it to go bitcoin completely. Perhaps, if you really, REALLY want to start accepting them, take it as an alternative payment method? The lack of bitcoin users is really a huge thing to keep in mind though.
Overall I agree with all of your points, and the rational side of me says turning PayPal off completely, at least at the start, would be just plain stupid. If anything, I'm hoping this discussion can spark Furcadia's interest in Bitcoin so, when its time comes, people will be ready.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 08:52:51 PM by Cougar »
An Astonishing Armada of Awesome Alts, All Available for ASAP Acquisition!
No price listed in the main post? Hit me up with $5 and we've got a DEAL!

Offline RIKKI

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #3: November 21, 2013, 07:41:01 PM»
If you want Furcadia to take notice of this currency, wouldn't you be better off hosting this discussion on their forums?

This comes off as a suggestion for them, not for FAM, really.


Offline Cougar

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #4: November 21, 2013, 07:47:10 PM»
If you want Furcadia to take notice of this currency, wouldn't you be better off hosting this discussion on their forums?

This comes off as a suggestion for them, not for FAM, really.
It's not really a suggestion for FAM, but rather an idea seeking other viewpoints with regards to buyers and sellers on FAM specifically, and whether it will someday be a viable option in third-party trades.

I wasn't interested in whether or not Furcadia will accept Bitcoin for Digos until you brought this up, however it's an interesting notion! If Digo Market itself started taking Bitcoin payments, it might give the payment method a bit more use for the community as a whole, thereby turning on a waterfall of signups? I'll pass the word on to Felorin!
An Astonishing Armada of Awesome Alts, All Available for ASAP Acquisition!
No price listed in the main post? Hit me up with $5 and we've got a DEAL!

Offline Mayim

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #5: November 21, 2013, 07:49:05 PM»
I'm still not convinced it won't turn out to be a huge scam so if I saw a seller taking Bitcoins, guess I'd be going to another seller.

Offline RIKKI

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #6: November 21, 2013, 09:12:05 PM»
Considering the points Zim brought up and Bitcoin's less than reputable hand in the drug trade, I highly doubt that DEP would consider accepting bitcoins as a viable payment method for their items.

A lot of users can agree and disagree on their methods, but I don't believe they'd be willing to look into this as a payment method.

Your ending statement has implied that this was your intention from the start?

But that's just me.


Offline Cougar

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #7: November 21, 2013, 09:57:02 PM»
I'm still not convinced it won't turn out to be a huge scam so if I saw a seller taking Bitcoins, guess I'd be going to another seller.
I understand the sentiment, and if it were anyone but me selling I'd probably feel the same way. With well over 2,000 alts sold in the past four years and zero hiccups, I'd like to think my track record overshadows any doubts regarding delivery. If I have to be the pioneer that blazes the trail, so be it!

Your ending statement has implied that this was your intention from the start?

But that's just me.
If what you mean was my intention was to bring the topic up for discussion and debate before starting to accept Bitcoin as a payment method, indeed it was! In short, I plan to start accepting Bitcoin payments in lieu of PayPal and, if demand grows enough, I intend to eventually phase out PayPal altogether, provided the response is adequate.

Right now I'm feeling out the market and looking for your opinions of pitfalls I may have missed, opinions on the viability of Bitcoin as a third-party Furcadia currency from both buyers and sellers, feelings regarding using something other than the standard PayPal/GD that everyone's become so comfortable with, and as a result inadvertently giving FAM members a heads-up ahead of pulling the trigger.

My intention is to start off with a 2:1 ratio, current value of $5USD on the BC market gets you $10 worth of alts, and work from there. Unless a suitable argument against the use of Bitcoin comes up, that is!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 10:14:47 PM by Cougar »
An Astonishing Armada of Awesome Alts, All Available for ASAP Acquisition!
No price listed in the main post? Hit me up with $5 and we've got a DEAL!

Offline RIKKI

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #8: November 21, 2013, 10:34:54 PM»
You always miss the point in my posts.


Offline Puff

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #9: November 21, 2013, 11:12:34 PM»
This is the biggest obstacle I foresaw, and dislike the idea of having to hold everyone's paw in the signup and transition phase. My hope is that young adults have the advantage of often being early adopters and not so set in their ways yet (vs. "PayPal is sacred, nothing can supersede"), and while I don't feel this is yet the case with Furcadia and Bitcoin, I'm not convinced that it can't happen given the right motivating forces. 1 user on FAM starts to accept Bitcoin payment, any users sign up?

Cougar, I'm personally set in my ways.

As a seller and occasional buyer, I see it as too much hassle to learn the loops of Bitcoin. Unless I were to switch to their currency entirely, it's just another service I would have to log into, another service to track.

It puts another step between the dollar and I.

However, if everyone picked it up~ Then, I would feel obligated to as well.
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Offline Walter

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #10: November 22, 2013, 04:23:04 PM»
Personally this is a great topic to bring up, but again, many users I can easily confirm don't know what bitcoin is or how it works. Bitcoins were used on the Silk Road for years until governmental shutdown. But personally, I'd believe it'd be a poor business decision to exclusively accept bitcoin, and here's why.

I agree with Zim's points. Let me take an analogy here to show why bitcoins might not be the best idea as an exclusive payment method.

Goodmarket, king of supermarket stores is a nation-trusted brand. They've been selling their goods for years at affordable prices. They'd take cash, credit card, many different forms of payment. Their shoppers were satisfied for what they could get at an affordable price! After all, who wouldn't? Eventually, Goodmarket introduces their own little credit card, which no one really pays much mind to. Not many shoppers have heard of it and an even smaller percentage actually uses it. But whatever, right? It's a payment method no one really needs to use. It's just an option and the people who use, and who don't use it are fine with it.

Until suddenly, Goodmarket decides the Goodmarket credit card from here on out will be the only payment they accept to sell their goods. Their everyday customers come into their stores and learn they can't buy with their Visa, Mastercard, or straight up cash. They realize this and begin to leave because they don't want to go through the trouble of making another credit card, getting money just to shop at goodmarket, going through all that troublesome business. Goodmarket's customers are now extremely low, many chains have shut down and they are struggling to survive with their lower customer base, since the rest of their customer's just decided to go to Supermart, a rival that accepts all forms of payment no questions asked instead.

Bitcoins are an overall bad idea for their obscurity, lack of userbase, and overall 'shadiness' of sorts. PayPal can be transformed into BitCoin fractions as well since it's technically wiring money to your card, so honestly considering it's whole shadiness I would recommend not to make it as an exclusive value. The only pro of Bitcoin is that it has no deduction fee for the seller(as bitcoins do not function as the same way paypal does), which is why I assume Cougar wants to implement it as a payment method.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 11:40:49 PM by Archelon »

Offline Gwynevere

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #11: November 26, 2013, 02:14:46 AM»
Given the Bitcoin reputation, as others have said, I would refuse to deal with anyone who was selling or trading in them, period. Paypal might have its moments when it comes to dealing with buyers and sellers but, on the whole and in comparison, it does not have that bad of a reputation. Paypal is easy to sign up for and simple to use; why fix what is not broken?

Offline Sync

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #12: December 13, 2013, 08:28:31 PM»
also as the occasional buyer and seller, i'd probably never use bitcoin cuz i just don't want to bother adding more payment methods when i'm already juggling more than i want to. and given it's shady reputation, i don't know how it'd be useful for me to pick up if i can't use it outside the internet.

Offline Tweak

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #13: January 24, 2014, 09:37:59 AM»
It doesn't make sense to use Bitcoin for Furcadia trading right now unless you want to make a statement. The main issue I see is that once you send coin to a wallet, there's no getting it back if it turns out you were scammed or if you made a mistake. It's also not very clear as to how to go about getting it and converting it back into other fiat currencies or where it can be used online. It's a bit of a confusing mess.

With that being said, I think we'll all be using cryptocurrency within 15 years. There's been a call for a world currency for a long time and this p2p cryptocurrency concept/Bitcoin seems to fit the bill. It's already getting regulated in some countries. Investors are becoming more interested. Businesses are starting to be brave and accept it as a payment option. Technology for mining cryptocurrency has become a market of it's own. Eventually wallets will be regulated and 'green lists' will be generated for safer usage. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are still in the process of being streamlined and it's kinda like the internet was in the early 90s. 8)

Offline Kaddiss

Re: Bitcoin for Furcadia Goods
«Reply #14: January 31, 2014, 02:57:07 PM»
After reading the site about Bitcoins- the wiki as well since, and maybe I'll get flak for this, the wiki is much easier to read.
If there was a book out there for Bitcoins for Dummies I'd read it because I still have no clue as to what a bitcoin is and how they're made aside from this mining process that takes up... computer memory or something.
It sounds extremely complicated.
It sounds extremely, pardon me, stupid.
As in how many people actually use them, are willing to use them, know what they're doing to use them... it sounds like a virtual currency that is used to do what? What are you mining for? What does the program do, these chain blocks. What's the purpose of these things? I didn't find an answer- how do you know you're not being used to crack some code or make a code up, that your computer in this peer to peer network isn't being used for some elaborate scheme. These bitcoins may sound harmless enough but to me as a potential user I don't want to have to go through the trouble 'mining' these coins nor have to figure out how/what they can be used for- after all this mining thing sounds strange- again. I'm used to currency, money backed by something.
It took me years to get a paypal because of uncertainty, at least their protected, and at least my bank will notify me same day in case shit happens.

I digress. Bitcoins I still don't know more about them then I did when I woke up. Perhaps if the public was better educated on it...

 

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