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Author Topic: that gay marriage thing  (Read 1637 times)

Offline lmao

that gay marriage thing
«: May 31, 2012, 11:36:47 PM»
Nevermind the "moral obligation to society". Nevermind all that "I think it's wrong" thing (I personally don't care). Just nevermind what people actually think about gay marriage.

I just wonder why - here in America - marriage has become entangled deeply within the government. Didn't it originate from religion? Most of the time it's a religious ceremony anyways, even if it did not hail from whatever spiritual faith.

Quoth the Constitution: separation of church and state. The government, in my opinion, shouldn't get involved in religious matters like gay marriage. It shouldn't be up to congressmen or senators. It shouldn't be up to Obama. It shouldn't be up to the state. It shouldn't be up to anyone else who's not even involved. It should be up to the single church a couple would like to have their wedding in, and nothing more.

What do you guys think?

inb4 all that bullshit about I TINK IT'S WRONG AND I MUST RUIN SOMEONE ELSE'S DECISION TO DO WHAT THEY WHAT WITH THEIR LIVES.


Offline Helyn

Re: that gay marriage thing
«Reply #1: June 01, 2012, 12:37:44 AM»

Quoth the Constitution: separation of church and state. The government, in my opinion, shouldn't get involved in religious matters like gay marriage. It shouldn't be up to congressmen or senators. It shouldn't be up to Obama. It shouldn't be up to the state. It shouldn't be up to anyone else who's not even involved. It should be up to the single church a couple would like to have their wedding in, and nothing more.


You are awesome for seeing sense. I hope that the US Government and the governments for the rest of the world can see just how rediculous their restrictions really are.
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Offline Synthetic

Re: that gay marriage thing
«Reply #2: June 04, 2012, 05:38:04 AM»
There is supposed to be a separation of church and state and that is what bothers me so deeply when laws get passed by the government based on religious facts. It seems like a slap in the face and a blatant lie.

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123456

Re: that gay marriage thing
«Reply #3: June 05, 2012, 01:07:12 AM»
You have a great view on this.
I been wondering the same thing for awhile now.
I think some of the US laws are just whacked.
I won't get into that, that is a different subject.
I do think that the government does this because
a majority of Republicans are catholic/Christian.
Most religious folks are against gay marriage rights.
Even though I feel the government shouldn't get involved in such
and as you said should be left up to the church/people.
The only reason the government gets involved with this I feel
is simply to control the rights of the people.
I'm not sure what else I can say that you haven't
 or isn't common knowledge but you get the point.



/Sorry rikki I added more to my post.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 01:40:57 AM by     »

Offline RIKKI

Re: that gay marriage thing
«Reply #4: June 05, 2012, 01:16:40 AM»
In-Depth Talk Rules
  • Topics and replies need to be well thought and relevant.

this is a warning to the thread thus far, not to single anyone out.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 03:38:55 PM by rikki »


Offline lmao

Re: that gay marriage thing
«Reply #5: June 06, 2012, 12:49:50 AM»
It's just a simple frustration I've had ever since I knew the Constitution had the phrase "separation of church and state" written on it.

Don't get me wrong. I love religion. It gives hope and purpose to many, many people around the world that would be utterly lost without it. It can and rightfully should be a life-changing thing; I just wish everyone had the cold, robot ability to distinguish between a religious want and a want for protecting the rights of everyone they're representing. Of course, humanity isn't perfect.

The fact that religion goes so majorly into so many votes is slightly disturbing to me. There's a difference between knowing what a man or woman believes in - such as if (s)he wants to sacrifice virgins to his/her god(dess) - and basing your vote on that, and noticing that someone said Obama is Muslim and immediately rethinking your choice in voting just because of that.

Think about how awkward it is, for a second, to have the Bill of Rights seared into your brain from school but see this gay marriage debate flying around everywhere. If everyone could take a step back and realize this... I wonder what would happen. Would there be any change? Would the majority just not care?

Offline elle

Re: that gay marriage thing
«Reply #6: August 14, 2012, 08:42:39 AM»
I believe the reason marriage is linked with the state in a most obvious sense because it is tied to benefits.  Tax benefits, welfare benefits, dependent benefits.  The state wants to control our lives in every aspect in order to maintain more power and thus creates irresistable temptations in the form of unnecessarily governed aspects of life. 

Besides that although the "foundations of our written state" are based around separation of church and state, that has never been the case.  The church is just another institution that can provide enormous amounts of power for politicians under a guise of..well..politics.  Our pledge of allegiance states "Under God".  Think about that.  In fact, our foundations state the right to bare arms as a given right but many think that guns should be restricted. 

I would not trust any ancient American writings.  It has been a long time, if ever, that the state has kept itself out of our business where it belongs.  Politics will continue to be a vantage point for power hungry people.  The gay marriage debate is just another facet of our life the government can pretend they deserve to control in order to gain more power through votes and legislation.  In other news, here in Mass, its legal.  I went to a gay wedding. It was cute.  I hate the government.

Offline Drake

Re: that gay marriage thing
«Reply #7: February 28, 2014, 10:34:34 PM»
My personal opinion... Marriage is basically a contract/business arrangement. If people say 'I married person because I love them' to me that is laughable. If marriage was truly a love thing rather than a business arrangement or contracts, there would be no such thing as political marriages, marriages for personal gain, etc. relationship speaking... being married vs not being married has no real true impact on interactions with someone you love and adore. I could treat a girlfriend with just as much respect, adoration, and love as I would someone whom was an actual 'wife'. So yeah... I honestly don't see the big deal myself...and I'm from America...  But, to sum it up... I've always felt that love and law shouldn't mix. And marriage IS mixing the two.

Offline Narnia

Re: that gay marriage thing
«Reply #8: March 01, 2014, 10:05:33 PM»
If marriage was a 'business arrangement' then I made a horrible deal for myself financially.
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Offline Drake

Re: that gay marriage thing
«Reply #9: March 01, 2014, 11:06:57 PM»
Haha. Perhaps. But.... I was mostly referring to what marriage is at it's core. Loving someone and marriage aren't directly linked. It truly is a contract. If it wasn't, if you got divorced from your husband/wife you wouldn't need to have any sort of court involvement y'know? There's no requirement to be in love with the person you're marrying, etc. Regardless though, this is just my opinion and personal belief about it. Psychologically speaking though, getting married to someone you truly love and adore is definitely a wonderful and smart thing to do. It cements what is already there and expresses to the world that you are together.

Offline Gwynevere

Re: that gay marriage thing
«Reply #10: March 02, 2014, 02:15:36 AM»
Actually marriage being strictly a business matter depends on the culture, time period and wealth of the individuals' involved, more often than not. My example being, Ancient Rome. There were two sorts of marriage. Those done by the higher patrician ranks of society, which was often like the business arrangement you are talking about; often (but not always) done to cement familial alliances, to strengthen business deals and for the production of offspring. The plebian marriage ceremony was often un-officiated, but still just as valid within the eyes of Roman law; while marriages for business probably still went on, the plebian marriage ceremony was often heavily more individual, private and personal for the lower ranks of Roman society. While that is just one cultural example, it's the one I feel most strongest in using as an example as I'm a Roman re-enactor IRL. Hearing people say that marriage (in Roman times) was just business makes me facepalm. No, no it wasn't. What you were taught in school had an element of truth but is not the whole truth - it's a very specific, narrow view, the same sort of lessons that tell us that Roman's only lived until they were thirty, women died even younger and marriage was a business deal.

So far as I am aware, court involvements during divorce proceedings are pretty much often only because in marriage, a couple's possessions and finances (housing included) are often so entangled that it requires outside supervision to ensure that such is divided up as fairly as possible. Certainly more so if how the marriage ended was... less than smooth and not a mutual agreement, shall we say.

I digress. My point elaborated on was that while marriage is a way of legitimising it in the eyes of the law, it opens up legal and social benefits that are of use to the individuals involved, such as visitation rights in hospital being the one often strongest used as an example. Me and my boyfriend have discussed marriage. Our plan at this point in time is to do the barest legal minimum to make it 'legit' (registration ceremony), then to have a full patrician-style wedding that is far more meaningful given our personal beliefs. I do not see it as a contract. I see it as a vow I am making to the Gods, and a vow to my other half. Sure, we'd get benefits and perks out of it, but the ceremony, symbolic meaning, spiritual meaning and pledge to me is what is far more important,

So far as homosexual marriage goes, I see no reason why those who love the same sex should not be allowed the same matrimonial rights as anyone else. I think that society should be secular; religion separated from the State - I'm in the UK, for reference, homosexual marriage is legal here. One dominant religion should not have a place where it can affect people from all different religions and paths of life. I have no moral qualms against homosexual marriage.

...Not to mention that heterosexual couples, by which I mean a few celebrities, have made heterosexual marriage as a prime example of harmony to be quite laughable on occasion.

Offline Altria

Re: that gay marriage thing
«Reply #11: June 19, 2014, 09:26:11 AM»
... being married vs not being married has no real true impact on interactions with someone you love and adore. I could treat a girlfriend with just as much respect, adoration, and love as I would someone whom was an actual 'wife'.

I realize that I am posting in this thread late, but what you said there could not be more wrong. If you re-visit this thread, I implore you to read these two articles:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/health/19well.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/11/gay-man-arrested-missouri-hospital_n_3060488.html


I could provide many more examples of similar situations, but I think those will give you a good idea of why it is so important to allow EVERYONE the right to marry and gain the benefits that come along with it.
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