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Author Topic: The Death Penalty  (Read 954 times)

Offline Gengar

The Death Penalty
«: February 11, 2011, 03:42:24 PM»
I made a topic like this on a debate forum, and got a good number of ideas and opinions, all of course civil and polite. Keep it as such.
What is your view on the death penalty?

Personally, I believe it is wholly wrong and immoral. The concept in itself is hypocrisy.

Think about it - killing people, regardless of the method or reason, to show other people that killing people is wrong. I don't know about the rest of you, but that sounds pretty hypocritical to me.
The method, the reason, and any other means of attempting to justify the death penalty does not clear the fact that it is, intellectually and purposely: murder. Slamming a hammer down and declaring someone guilty, or having a gun and a badge does not give ANYONE the right to take another life.

In society we have this skewed view that if we have the ability, if we have the power to do something, that automatically gives us the right, and the privilege to act on it.
In my opinion, the revenge method is ridiculous.. a lot of people, especially close friends and family to a victim of murder, say that the execution of the criminal is 'relieving' and gives 'peace of mind'. If that is true, then they are pretty much no better than the criminal themselves.

There is no 'humane' way of killing - death is death, no matter how, or where, or why. The only difference is who is doing it. Killing the murderer won't bring the dead loved one to life, nor will it 'avenge' them. "An eye for an eye makes the world blind."

If anything, applying the death penalty is possibly the best 'punishment' the killer could hope to have. Death is a release of all emotions and senses of thought, pain, memory. That is the last thing the person deserves.

My point is: the situation is of no relevance. The means do not justify the end. It really bothers me when people think someone 'deserves' to die. I'm sorry - when did you become God? What the hell gave you, or anyone, the right to decide who deserves to live? The morality and philosophy of the concept doesn't mean much to most simply because as long as we have the power to give and take life, we don't care about if we have the 'right' to judge life and death. No one can stop us, so what does it matter?

If people would open their eyes and see the death penalty for what it really is, instead of seeing through misplaced grief and false heroic ideals, it is essentially killing people to show killing is wrong.
Thumbs up for our government.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.


Gengar


song

Re: The Death Penalty
«Reply #1: February 11, 2011, 03:56:38 PM»
I'm not for it I think if someone was sentenced to death. The worst fate for them is living. Let them live life but with facing there own mistakes and hardship of life. That is redemption and I believe. If you do something wrong. Live your life, even if it is hell. I wish people would realize as you said it is hypocritical. I mean its like you wanna teach that killing is wrong but yet you do it to people that made serious mistakes...Sure you think they deserve this but they don't. I mean okay they did something wrong let them live there life in jail. That is the best punishment.


kay

/end of my babbling rant
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 03:59:51 PM by Corry »

Offline Harley

Re: The Death Penalty
«Reply #2: February 11, 2011, 04:53:49 PM»
I agree with the death penalty when it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the person in question is guilty of the crime they have committed. I don't know about you, but I don't like that a lot of this country's money (which also means my tax money) is spent housing criminals who have no problem with raping little children, beating and killing others for the money in their pocket, and other heinous crimes that call for a death sentence. They get to live in a place without paying for rent, taxes, or other bills that a law abiding citizen has to. Yes, they committed a crime, and yes, they have to live in prison but they have many creature comforts that are lost to a good deal of the population, and they get to have those for as long as they're in there. This includes food, water (yes mandatory), a place to sleep, gym equipment access, college by correspondence (free if I remember right!), libraries, and in some cases, internet access. Why should someone who's committed a crime have all of that, for free, when many of our own citizens struggle with keeping that themselves?

It's not hypocritical. They committed a crime and therefore need to be punished. Many serial killers who served on death row or life in prison have come out and said that they would kill again without a second thought. Many do not feel remorse, at all, for their actions. That's why they're sociopaths; they don't care. So, why should you care about them? Why do you want to sit there and let them live a comfortable life feeling no remorse for their actions, where they celebrate the impact they have made on our society, where they mock the families of the victims left behind, who smile at all the fan letters they get from equally psychotic people all across the world? Those kinds of people don't deserve to live. They have made it clear by taking it upon themselves to decide who lives or who dies.

You misunderstand the peace of mind an execution brings. It means that this person will never harm another living being again. They can still kill in prison. They can still be let out because of a technicality in our court system. They could get out and hurt others. Families don't need to sit there thinking about how cruel and unjust it is that someone killed a love one and they get to sit there and live their life out to the fullest. They took a life. They did not allow a life (or in many case, lives) to live out to their fullest for whatever misguided reason. They are allowed to live with the only punishment being they get to sit in a prison cell with all the creature comforts that normal society has. Maybe not to the degree that we have it, but they still have it.

You basically say, "What gives you the right to say a person deserves to die?" I ask you, "What gives you the right to say they deserve to live?"

Joel

Re: The Death Penalty
«Reply #3: February 11, 2011, 05:38:08 PM»
Think about it - killing people, regardless of the method or reason, to show other people that killing people is wrong.
firstly, no. this is totally twisting around the process to prove an irrelevant point. i don't think that the death penalty is given to someone to persuade people that killing others is wrong. the death penalty is given to people that "deserve" it as a punishment. it seems as though you're using the death penalty as an example or something in relation to the government or authority in general.

i know most people have this idea that if you commit a crime that the worst punishment is life in jail, i personally think death is worse than that. like if i happened to kill someone i would prefer to live. obviously there would be regret, etc etc. but! i would rather be alive, able to have time to think, and that kinda stuff in the mean time than just not exist. that's just me, although i have no dramatic opinion on the death penalty itself. i just wanted to respond to cover those couple points.

alsoo, anyone could be a killer, everyone has their conflicts, maybe it just takes a few steps over one's brink for them to tick. i don't believe someone should be put to death unless it's 100% fucking positive that they actually committed the crime, too many people have received the death penalty or time in prison for crimes they didn't even commit. i really don't think people should be put to death at all in reality though, but that's not a really strong opinion or anything, just depends on the crime i suppose. and lol i also believe killing in war is just as wrong as killing/murder otherwise.

i've read the first post and skimmed over the others and i think i may share similar views with harley.

Cup Ramen

Re: The Death Penalty
«Reply #4: February 11, 2011, 05:48:00 PM»
The death penalty is wrong when you put it in terms of using it to show other people that killing is wrong. One person should not have to become such a drastic example to others. If the death penalty is ever justified, it is as punishment to the individual who committed the crime.

As for whether or not the act itself is moral or immoral, I'm a little on the fence. But, I do know that no matter what, I don't believe it is enough of a punishment. In my opinion, those who murder should be forced to keep living with that shame. That doesn't work for everyone, granted, since not everyone regrets it... that's why I'm really not sure.

I don't think it should be utilized in any case not only because it's not enough of a punishment, but because not everyone who they convict is necessarily guilty. There is too much risk of killing an innocent person.

Ending one person's life does not take away your right to your life. Yet nothing will ever justify ending another person's life.

Offline Tony

Re: The Death Penalty
«Reply #5: February 11, 2011, 05:53:50 PM»
Why should somebody have the right to live if they take someone else's life? That isn't fair at all. I don't care if someone murders one person, or 20 people, he still deserves to have his life taken too. Who is he to decide whether someone lives or dies? He's a nobody, more than likely a petty thief or drug addict.

For the people who are against the death penalty, I'm sure that your opinion would change at the drop of a dime if one of your family members or friends were involved in a killing spree. You'd be all over that shit, but just because you are directly affected, you're against it.

song

Re: The Death Penalty
«Reply #6: February 11, 2011, 06:19:59 PM»
Why should somebody have the right to live if they take someone else's life? That isn't fair at all. I don't care if someone murders one person, or 20 people, he still deserves to have his life taken too. Who is he to decide whether someone lives or dies? He's a nobody, more than likely a petty thief or drug addict.

For the people who are against the death penalty, I'm sure that your opinion would change at the drop of a dime if one of your family members or friends were involved in a killing spree. You'd be all over that shit, but just because you are directly affected, you're against it.


Agreed and if they deserve punishment like I said, life in jail is punishment enough. That's redemption and that's how i view it. No ones deserves death. Even if there a murder, Just because they killed does that give anyone the right to kill them? I don't think so.

 They should live even if the life there living is hell but I think even if there an insane asylum forever that'd be like living hell every day or jail, and punishment enough but either or you'd regret everything you done there too. Like even if you were about to die and you'd regret it, sure but living in a place you cant do anything but sit, think what you done and go insane...

I mean isn't that torture enough? I have an old friend who raped his brother and got put in placement its not as severe BUTBUT he regretted everything while he was there, same difference ya know? Just A life should not be taken regardless of the crime.


 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 06:31:08 PM by Corry »

Cup Ramen

Re: The Death Penalty
«Reply #7: February 11, 2011, 08:06:57 PM»
Why should somebody have the right to live if they take someone else's life? That isn't fair at all. I don't care if someone murders one person, or 20 people, he still deserves to have his life taken too. Who is he to decide whether someone lives or dies? He's a nobody, more than likely a petty thief or drug addict.

For the people who are against the death penalty, I'm sure that your opinion would change at the drop of a dime if one of your family members or friends were involved in a killing spree. You'd be all over that shit, but just because you are directly affected, you're against it.

I wouldn't want the criminal to die. I'd want them to have to live with life-consuming guilt. Not that that's too realistic either.

Offline Tony

Re: The Death Penalty
«Reply #8: February 11, 2011, 11:38:40 PM»
I wouldn't want the criminal to die. I'd want them to have to live with life-consuming guilt. Not that that's too realistic either.
Well prisons do have a limited amount of space. And I seriously doubt the people who murder other people would feel guilty. If they got out, they'd, more than likely, kill again. So I say just slap them in the electric chair and get it over with and save the jail cells for the criminals whose crimes aren't as severe as murder.

Offline Gengar

Re: The Death Penalty
«Reply #9: February 12, 2011, 01:04:40 PM»
Why should somebody have the right to live if they take someone else's life? That isn't fair at all. I don't care if someone murders one person, or 20 people, he still deserves to have his life taken too. Who is he to decide whether someone lives or dies? He's a nobody, more than likely a petty thief or drug addict.

For the people who are against the death penalty, I'm sure that your opinion would change at the drop of a dime if one of your family members or friends were involved in a killing spree. You'd be all over that shit, but just because you are directly affected, you're against it.

You bring up a point. I talked with my mother about this, and she even asked me 'how would you feel if someone were to kill me? wouldn't you want them to die too?'
As hard as it is to say it, no. I would not wish the death penalty on anyone.
It is irrelevant what crime is committed - murdering elderly, raping children. I know those are very heinous crimes, and I in no way condone them, but I do not condone the practice of death as a legal punishment. You can think someone doesn't have the right to live - that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it as you wish. However, having that opinion also does not give YOU the right to DECIDE if someone lives or dies. No one has the authority, though many do have the power.
It takes money and it takes space from prisons, but if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. Use the prisoners for manual labor or some sort - keep them alive, and make use of them as long as they live. I in no way encourage serial killers and other criminals "deserving" of the death penalty to simply lounge in their cell, eat, sleep and do nothing. If anything, they should be put to hard labor; that does not mean torture, though.

The 'crime and punishment' thing is not hypocritical in itself, but the method is. Kill the person who killed others because killing is wrong. Its hypocrisy, whichever way you look at it. Nothing justifies taking a life - not for the criminal, and not for the government. Partly, using the death penalty will sometimes increase the number of crimes committed. If I was going to commit a crime, and I was relieved by the thought 'it doesn't matter, I'm gonna die anyway', then I'd be more apt to do whatever I wanted, to an extreme, and perhaps cause more damage and pain then if I were to spend the rest of my life in jail with back-breaking labor.

You basically say, "What gives you the right to say a person deserves to die?" I ask you, "What gives you the right to say they deserve to live?"

I never said they deserve to live. At the same time, it is not my PLACE to decide if they live or die, and it is no one else's either. Not the government, not society; only their's. It is their life, they chose what to make of it, and they will die when they do. People are entitled to believe that so and so does not deserve to live, but they are not entitled to make that decision. Power does not mean authority. You have the ability to do many things - does that make it right to do them, simply because you CAN?

And with respect to criminals being sociopaths and not caring, that's not true for all of them. But I will say this then; if that is true, let's say, then what about the government officials carrying out these sentences? They are knowingly, and willingly taking the life of another, regardless of crimes. Killing these criminals for 'the protection of society' is a heroic illusion put up to relieve people of the guilt that they took a life. Protection of society my ass - regardless of whether or not we approve or like it, criminals and such ARE a part of society as much as any other. Hypocrisy, yet again.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.


Gengar

 

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