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Author Topic: PayPal and Service Fees  (Read 2730 times)

Offline Moose

PayPal and Service Fees
«: September 01, 2010, 10:34:52 PM»
It has come to our attention that recently people selling alts, digos, and other items are requiring potential buyers to pay extra to pay for the service fee when doing a transaction with PayPal.

(While we at FAM don't demand you to not gift payments, please be aware that gifting makes it difficult to have money returned if there is a dispute on PayPal from either side and you lose the security of a 'paper trail' that assists in these cases. We strongly advise to not use the gift option on PayPal to prevent potential loss.)


Paypal Charges
a.     It is not only poor business practice, but against Paypal's ToS to charge extra to cover their service fee.
     i.     If you are caught doing it, you will be warned. If you continue to do it, you will be at risk for suspension and reporting to Paypal to have your account closed.

It is against the Terms of Service agreement you agree to when signing up to PayPal to require users to pay extra for transfer fees. This has been a rule at FAM for a very long time too, and we expect users to have read the rules to use this website.

We are giving users a week to change their threads requiring buyers to pay extra, then warnings and suspensions will be handed out as necessary.


Please understand we are enforcing this rule because it is a rule from PayPal's ToS, not because we're a bunch of big meanies!

Moose,
FAM Staff.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 10:40:48 PM by Moose »
Furcadia: Moose


Offline Eevee

Re: PayPal and Service Fees
«Reply #1: September 02, 2010, 07:14:19 PM»
As a note, if too many people send payments to you as "gifts", paypal may close your account possibly under suspicion that its to avoid paypal fees.

Offline Narnia

Re: PayPal and Service Fees
«Reply #2: September 04, 2010, 09:55:59 PM»
I provide for reference the following:

Please review the relevant applicable sections from the PayPal User Agreement:
Quote
4. Receiving Money.

4.1 Receiving Personal Payments.

If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.
* * *
4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.
* * *
“Personal Payment” means amounts sent between two individuals (not to or from a business) without a purchase. Examples of Personal Payments include sending a gift to a friend or paying a friend back for your share of a lunch bill.

The PayPal Help Center provides further clarifications of what options are permissible for the sale of an item (such as an alt) and as a personal payment:
Quote
What are the payment types when I send money?

Answer :
    The payment types for a purchase are:

        * Services: to pay for things like your internet service.
        * Goods: to pay for non-eBay goods.
        * eBay Items: to pay for your eBay purchases.

    The payment types for a personal payment are:

        * Gift: to send money as a gift, like for a birthday.
        * Payment Owed: to pay your friend back for your share of a dinner bill, or to other item that your friend paid for you.
        * Cash Advance: payment not involving the purchase of goods or services. Your credit card provider may charge fees for a cash advance.
        * Living Expense: to pay for things like rent or utilities.
        * Other: for other reasons that aren't a purchase of goods or services.

Additionally, the FAM staff, from their own personal trading experiences, discourages the use of the gift option by both buyers and sellers because it provides not protection for either party in the event of a scam.

I hope that this had thoroughly addressed your concerns with this issue. If you have further questions regarding PayPal's policies, please contact them directly.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline Zodiac

Re: PayPal and Service Fees
«Reply #3: September 16, 2010, 11:38:31 AM»
If we are in the business of enforcing the rules of outside websites now, then we need to go back and dig up that old post we had about Gaia and every other site people sell things from on here, where it is clearly defined in their TOS as well, that it is against their policy. Don't go suspending people for breaking one rule from some other website, and ignore the rest of it. Balance is nice.

anonymous

Re: PayPal and Service Fees
«Reply #4: September 16, 2010, 11:41:44 AM»
If we are in the business of enforcing the rules of outside websites now, then we need to go back and dig up that old post we had about Gaia and every other site people sell things from on here, where it is clearly defined in their TOS as well, that it is against their policy. Don't go suspending people for breaking one rule from some other website, and ignore the rest of it. Balance is nice.

I think it's okay to care more about paypal's policies since it's real money, but I do agree with you for the most part. I'd rather enforce none than all.

Offline Zodiac

Re: PayPal and Service Fees
«Reply #5: September 16, 2010, 01:03:01 PM»
Real money or not, everything people do here has long been described as AT YOUR OWN RISK. Its not really FAM's problem if someone gets banned from Paypal for charging for fees, or if someone loses their '03 Gaia account for selling their angelic mini wings on here. Its been that way for a long time, and I don't see why its going to suddenly change for one thing. Yes, I think it is stupid for people to charge an extra fee for their alts because of paypal service fees, but I don't think people should be getting anything more than made aware of this policy. Not suspended for doing it simply because "ITS AGAINST PAYPAL TOS". I don't believe the FAM TOS states anywhere that "you must follow the TOS of all related outsited services".

Offline Help

Re: PayPal and Service Fees
«Reply #6: September 16, 2010, 01:53:58 PM»
So since I've been warned for asking for covering paypals fee, I just have to ask, why only paypal?

If we are going to cover websites ToS, doesn't that mean that we have to cover Furcadias, Gaia, Waja, Neopets, FA, and DA's as well?

If so then their is no use for paypal seeing as ALL of them say that trading for out of their websites/applications for non-releated things such as real money and other currencies/items is illegal and thus will get us banned. (Furc's is only that it is discouraged to trade for paypal for lifers.)


Also paypal only states a SURCHARGE is against the policy. A Surcharge is an additional fee. That doesn't include the paypal fee mind you. You Still have to pay the fee no matter what. It's just the buyer that gets to choose who pays that fee.

So you as a seller could request that they pay it. Simple as that, and it's not going against paypals ToS at all!

Quote
8.1 Fees Overview.

Fees are based on whether you are making a Purchase Payment or a Personal Payment.

For Purchase Payments, the recipient of the payment will always pay the fee.

For Personal Payments, the following applies:

    * The fee depends on the Payment Method you use.
    * The fee is paid by either the sender or recipient, not both.
    * The sender of the payment determines who pays the fee at the time the sender makes the payment.
    * It is free to send a Personal Payment to someone in the United States in U.S. Dollars if you use your bank or balance as the exclusive Payment Method*. All other Personal Payments include a fee as noted below.
    * Additional fees apply if you are sending or receiving money to or from a country outside the United States, or transacting in a foreign currency.
    * If you use your credit card as the Payment Method for a Personal Payment, you may be charged a cash-advance fee by your credit card company.
    * In some instances, Personal Payment pricing may not be available. In these instances, all payments must be Purchase Payments.
    * Personal Payments may not be available on non-PayPal websites or other applications that offer you the ability to send a payment from your PayPal account.
    * Personal Payments may not be sent to recipients in India.



« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 02:09:58 PM by Help »
Whisper Help or KinkyKelseyKat2 if you wish to get in contact with me.

Offline Narnia

Re: PayPal and Service Fees
«Reply #7: September 16, 2010, 02:30:33 PM»
Locked until I can deal with this thread at home.

Zodiac, you know how to reach me directly if you have a problem with things instead if blowing them up here.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

 

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