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Author Topic: Mosque near Ground Zero  (Read 1650 times)

Offline Narnia

Mosque near Ground Zero
«: August 16, 2010, 09:43:36 PM»
Let's have a serious discussion because propaganda and media spin are starting to really upset me. Specifically, I read a media headline today that the Republicans are latching themselves onto the Mosque near Ground Zero as a platform issue. Here is what irks me:

The Muslim religion is not responsible for the attacks that occurred on September 11. So building a Mosque is no different than building a church, a temple, or a coffee house. Specifically, Americans have a right to a freedom of religion and to restrict them from opening their Mosque is direct infringement on that right. They lawfully purchased the land to lawfully open a Mosque. I think the real issue is that people have some underlying prejudice as Muslims at a whole but are too afraid to express that opinion outright and need to hide behind the mask of 9/11. Timothy McVey, the Columbine Shooters,  the DC Sniper, and many other criminals who have committed terrorist acts against the US certainly had religious beliefs, but we don't condemn the religions for their actions like we are now with the Muslims.

So.. thoughts, opinions, let's discuss.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."


Offline Zim

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #1: August 16, 2010, 09:59:19 PM»
People have been comparing building a mosque near ground zero like putting a Nazi facility near Auschwitz. The comparison made me sick to my stomach. They're comparing a religion to a military regime whose main focus was elimination of "lesser races." You cannot judge and entire people by their religion; it's part of the same vein as judging by race or gender.

I don't see anything wrong with it. In fact, I see it as a positive thing; by opening a peaceful religious venue near that site, it's almost like making a statement in defense of their religion. I applaud them for that.

Let them build.

I'm only mean out of necessity.

Offline Narnia

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #2: August 16, 2010, 10:01:55 PM»
The other major problem that someone on Facebook has been arguing with me is the opening on 9/11/11.

Is this in poor taste? Probably. But to condemn and vilify the Muslim religion for opening on that date is in stark comparison to the American ideals of religious freedom and tolerance. If I opened a Catholic Church on 9/11/11 no one would bat an eye.

And really, this Mosque isn't even a Mosque exactly. It's a Muslim Community Center similar to a YMCA (Young Men's Christian Association).
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

anonymous

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #3: August 17, 2010, 02:02:12 AM»
If anything I think it's a little ironic that they plan to build a mosque in the trade center's place, but I find it incredibly racist to think that it's a slap to America's face, or some other extremity along those lines.

This is America. A religion did not attack us, a terrorist group did, only because they were ballistic. It's like anyone killing in the name of Christ or some other God-like figure.

Mosques are beautiful, in my opinion. More appealing than a hole in the ground. :p

Offline Moose

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #4: August 17, 2010, 02:13:20 AM»
In my personal opinion which I am not forcing upon anyone, ground zero should be made into a garden or a large memorial. Absolutely nothing should be built there that would bring controversy into it (such as a religious building of any type be it muslim or catholic, etc.) Period.
It's now a place for remembrance- not for arguments over religion, whether or not a bigger tower should be built there, or if anything at all were to be considered built on it other than a memorial. Personally, there is nothing appropriate to put there other than a garden or some sort of memorial for the families of all religious faiths who lost loved ones.
Simple fix for that.

But as for the Mosque; if it's not being built on the actual site where the tragedy took place, there's nothing wrong with it. Far be it a shadow of a building falls in that area. Let us not forget even Muslim lives were lost in 9/11, not just plain americans.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 02:16:47 AM by Moose »
Furcadia: Moose

Offline Narnia

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #5: August 17, 2010, 03:02:18 AM»
The Mosque is not being built AT ground zero. It is going to be located a few blocks away from ground zero.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline Julie

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #6: August 17, 2010, 05:50:58 AM»
The Mosque is not being built AT ground zero. It is going to be located a few blocks away from ground zero.

this. It is making me wonder how much the media is stressing the fact that it is NOT on ground zero by hearing these comments. Besides, it has long been decided that there would be memorials on GZ.

I completely agree with narnia and zim. When first heard of this I wanted to slap everyone who thought building a mosque was a bad idea. Our very first ammendment contains the freedom of religion. Not only would it be unconstitutional to prevent the building of a mosque, it would be racist and show just how ignorant our country is. We are shoving innocent Muslims in with terrorists. I am glad the president sees the constitutional right the Muslim people have above his own personal beliefs.

And from eat I understand, the mosque will be demolishing a building that is NOT EVEN BEING USED!! You would rather have a gross old building stay there than make use out of the space? And as for it being the Muslim equivalent of a  YMCA, I have not heard that before. It makes me even more in favor f them building this.

Offline Suzy

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #7: August 17, 2010, 02:45:02 PM»
I honestly think it's stupid that people are up in arms over building it near Ground Zero. Not on. Near. I agree with Moose. Ground Zero itself deserves a memorial.

As stated above me (and as I'm sure people with continue to post), you can't group all Muslims with the terrorists, yaddah yaddah. Not everything applies to the "bad apple" effect.

And my first 6 months of driving are up on 9/11/11, meaning I can now carry passengers who aren't related to me, so there are far worse things that can happen on that date than opening a Mosque.

Offline Julie

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #8: August 17, 2010, 03:19:18 PM»
i keep hearing people on the news say "IT'S A SLAP IN THE FACE TO THE FAMILIES OF THE INNOCENT VICTIMS OF 9/11 IF WE ALLOW A MOSQUE NEAR GROUND ZERO!!!!!!!"

but isn't it a slap in the face to the innocent Muslims that have nothing to do with the terrorists who caused 9/11, to have people say that their religious buildings are an insult to people? and also for nearly EVERY political figure to group them in with terrorists! it makes me sick.

also, suzy, you made me lol with that last part

Offline Suzy

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #9: August 17, 2010, 04:29:51 PM»
also, suzy, you made me lol with that last part

The sad part is that I was serious.

Also, this is why religion ruins everything for me anymore.

Offline Vera!

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #10: August 17, 2010, 10:42:27 PM»
I actually had a conversation about this with my grandfather who wasn't very keen on the idea at all. The way that i think about it is lets say that there was a protestant church to be built near an area where someone was brutally killed by the KKK. Should the people be freaking out that there is a church being built there that shares the same faith as the people who killed that person? No, because the KKK did it, not the church.

Muslims as a whole did not do 9/11, just a very small group of radicals.

You cannot take away basic constitutional rights to a whole group of people just because of what a few of their members did.

Offline Katana

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #11: August 17, 2010, 11:05:54 PM»
I saw this on the news earlier, haha. I think it's silly to be upset over something so minuscule. In response to what narnia said, yes I DO think the opening date is in bad taste. VERY bad taste.
People are so... "do-not-want" over the whole thing, and they fail to realize there's actually a Mosque ALREADY near the Ground Zero site, and has been there for many years before the newly proposed mosque/cultural center/whatever they're trying to pass it off as now.
While I dont think it's fair to demonize that particular peoples choice of a mosque next to Ground Zero, I don't think it's a wise decision on their part to build it near such a.. "sensitive spot". Myself personally? I don't care. I dont' see any problem with it in myself, but I see it within other people who are pissing in their pants being all "NOO FFFFF MUSLIMS THEY DID THIS TO US HISSSS GET AWAYYYY FROM GROUND ZERO RAAAHHH", and every other associated more/less extreme train of thought.
Or whatever their problem is..

..what is this i dont even :c

Offline Creek

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #12: August 17, 2010, 11:07:54 PM»
Quote
Why are people getting so worked up over this Mosque? No one would bat an eye if a church arose there, no one would bat at eye if a synagogue arose, but because of the fact that a group of people that happen to share the religion of a small group of terrorists, its now our right to bash these people? Yes, they could have picked a different date, but they're not slapping anyone in the face. They're doing their right as Americans and having freedom of religion. Its not being built on GZ, only near it. Why do we discriminate against others because of another person's actions? Should Christians be attacked because of the injustice actions of the KKK? Should Christians be attacked because of the injustice actions made by the Nazi Regime during WWII? They're not, so how can we do the same because a small group of people from their religion attacked us? People whom died in the Twin towers weren't just Christian, there were some that were Muslim, there were some that were Jewish. How dare you make assumptions, how dare you attack their religious freedom.

Me and a friend just had it out about this. Above is basically what I said on the matter. I don't argue well.
I NO LONGER LOG ONTO FURCADIA

Offline Pikachu

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #13: September 11, 2010, 06:59:14 PM»
Reviving this shit because apparently "patriotic protestors" are burning pages from the Quran on the anniversary of 9/11.

So it's okay to burn a Quran? What if I burned a bible? It just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I find it so hypocritical that the victims of a terrible act of violence are remembered through more hate and violence. It's shameful.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive ...out hate; only love can do that." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline Julie

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #14: September 11, 2010, 09:43:52 PM»
Reviving this shit because apparently "patriotic protestors" are burning pages from the Quran on the anniversary of 9/11.

So it's okay to burn a Quran? What if I burned a bible? It just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I find it so hypocritical that the victims of a terrible act of violence are remembered through more hate and violence. It's shameful.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive ...out hate; only love can do that." Martin Luther King, Jr.

i actually saw something about the Quran burning this morning, apparently the pastor vowed to never burn a Quran. but yea, that shit made me furious.

we're such a hypocritical country, but the worst part of it all is that we're so full of ourselves that a mass majority can't, and refuse to, realise it.

Offline Aw

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #15: September 12, 2010, 09:55:43 AM»
It really irks me that no one (at least on mine) on facebook has any idea about this. All I see is shit like, "OBAMA IS A TERRORIST IF HE ALLOWS THIS", "NOTHING SHOULD BE BUILT AT GROUND ZERO", "DOWN WITH MUSLIMS".

http://www.causes.com/causes/489418   is a great example of this.
yo yo yo look at my teeth

Offline Creek

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #16: September 12, 2010, 10:23:17 AM»
Pfft. I have a friend that posted OMG I AM SO DISGUSTED WITH MUSLIMS FOR BUILDING THERE


so I was all I AM DISGUSTED WITH HYPOCRITES WHO ARE ATTACKING A RELIGION FOR WHAT A GROUP OF PEOPLE DID.

I couldn't believe how disgusted I was when I heard they were threatening to burn the Qua-ran because of this. Did that ever end up happening? Imagine how much bs protest there would be if it was a Bible being burned.

Okay, i've tried 17 times to post my FB logs here, but I think I'll stop trying now since I keep hitting the BS button and it erases everything D<)

I NO LONGER LOG ONTO FURCADIA

Offline Pikachu

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #17: September 12, 2010, 11:22:27 AM»
Although the pastor followed through with his promise, some protesters did indeed burn Qurans in demonstrations held on 9/11.

Thankfully, facebook was pretty quiet on the subject. The one thing I did see was some of my more conservative friends were "flying the conservative flag," which is a page against the mosque at ground zero. A good friend surprised me with this comment and I think it sums up my feelings perfectly:

"I know this will sound weird coming from me and all, but I can't help but wonder what people's reactions would be if it was a church that was getting built down the street from Ground Zero. I can bet it would be positive, instead of the protesting the mosque is getting. I mean, I understand that it was Muslim terrorists who went into the towers, but the key word is "terrorists." There's Christian terrorists, too. You don't see anyone banning churches. Not every Muslim is a terrorist. So why the heck are people terrorizing the poor innocent ones who just want a place of worship? I may not believe in Islam and heck, I may not even want to encourage it. But I do believe in not being a total jerk to someone because of prejudice. Gosh freaking dang it."

Offline Creek

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #18: September 12, 2010, 12:48:34 PM»
Turns out though, that the Mosque was funded by the Al-qaeda.


would have liked to have known that ya know.
I NO LONGER LOG ONTO FURCADIA

Offline Pikachu

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #19: September 12, 2010, 01:31:03 PM»
Turns out though, that the Mosque was funded by the Al-qaeda.


would have liked to have known that ya know.

Source?

Offline Zim

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #20: September 12, 2010, 01:37:42 PM»
Turns out though, that the Mosque was funded by the Al-qaeda.


would have liked to have known that ya know.

Source?

Multiple, if possible. Some websites seem to like to pull stuff out their ass to make their opinion look better.

I'm only mean out of necessity.

Offline Creek

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #21: September 12, 2010, 01:48:52 PM»
This site is the only one I could find that said anything, but it seems to be one journalist's view points
http://gdmp.net/subdoms/gdmporg/?p=12208
Heard from the news too, but I might have overheard it (I've been told Fox has been saying this? )

but I couldn't find anything else, It may possibly be a huge rumor but Iunno. anything with the Al-Qaeda, I wouldn't take much of a risk myself. I've also read that other Mosques say that the Mosque should move, to keep things from blowing more out of proportion and to respect the wishes of the people.

I'm not saying i'm changing my mind or something, because of the fact that people are still lashing out at Muslim's as whole, but I would take cautions on that rumor since you never know, the Al-qaeda are quite secretive.

Edit: its so hard to figure out whats truth and whats not with things being spewed around on the news channels. Maybe thats why I never watched the news before and why I shouldn't :/
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 01:55:20 PM by Jacki. »
I NO LONGER LOG ONTO FURCADIA

Offline Pikachu

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #22: September 12, 2010, 01:58:37 PM»
I don't know if I would trust that site as a legit source. It's a .net conservative news resource and frankly, it reeks of propaganda.

I did some investigating of my own and fatchek.org does briefly touch upon the funding of the mosque:

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/08/questions-about-the-ground-zero-mosque/

« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 02:00:39 PM by Pikachu »

Offline Creek

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #23: September 12, 2010, 02:24:45 PM»
Finished reading that. Guess we'll have to wait and see where the funding does come from.
I NO LONGER LOG ONTO FURCADIA

Offline Warlock

Re: Mosque near Ground Zero
«Reply #24: September 12, 2010, 02:48:15 PM»
The media should always be taken with a pinch of salt...

They tend to tell you what they want you to hear, i.e. the most dominant opnions would belong to those who own said media sites/channels.

Fox, as far as I know, is a conservative media source... so it'd hardly be surprising that they'd say that sort of thing. My memory is a bit fuzzy from media studies, so feel free to correct me about Fox.

As for my opinion on building the Mosque near Ground Zero, I don't see any problem with it at all, for reasons that those who agree with this have made so far.




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