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Author Topic: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!  (Read 1840 times)

Offline Julie

prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«: August 05, 2010, 07:49:50 AM»
if you don't know what prop 8 is, it made same-sex marriage illegal in California.

i, for one, am ecstatic. it seems like someone in our government has some common sense when it comes to equality and civil rights, not to mention the very MEANING of our country: FREEDOM.

anyone else's thoughts?


Brutal

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #1: August 05, 2010, 09:26:04 AM»
I just plain have to agree with you. I fleetingly saw someone's journal title over my FurAffinity as being that the Prop had been overturned, and so I absolutely had to look it up. Imagine how thrilled I was to find everything positive.
As I said to someone before, I thought there was separation of church and state, and that being the case... well, I really don't think anyone should be able to tell two people who love each other that they can't receive the same benefits as anyone else.

So hey! Yay!

Offline Cardali

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #2: August 06, 2010, 03:09:00 AM»
I'm glad that it was overturned. I'm not homosexual but I do think that love is love, and if someone wants to get married they should be able to regardless of gender. I have a close friend who is a homosexual and engaged to their life partner, and I'm glad to know I'll be able to go to their wedding once they set the date.

Offline Masha

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #3: August 06, 2010, 01:08:14 PM»
    * "Sexual orientation is commonly discussed as a characteristic of the individual. Sexual orientation is fundamental to a person's identity and is a distinguishing characteristic that defines gays and lesbians as a discrete group. Proponents' assertion that sexual orientation cannot be defined is contrary to the weight of the evidence."

    * "Individuals do not generally choose their sexual orientation. No credible evidence supports a finding that an individual may, through conscious decision, therapeutic intervention or any other method, change his or her sexual orientation."

    * "Same-sex couples are identical to opposite-sex couples in the characteristics relevant to the ability to form successful marital unions. Like opposite-sex couples, same-sex couples have happy, satisfying relationships and form deep emotional bonds and strong commitments to their partners. Standardized measures of relationship satisfaction, relationship adjustment and love do not differ depending on whether a couple is same-sex or opposite-sex."

    * "Marrying a person of the opposite sex is an unrealistic option for gay and lesbian individuals."

    * "Same-sex couples receive the same tangible and intangible benefits from marriage that opposite-sex couples receive."

    * "The availability of domestic partnership does not provide gays and lesbians with a status equivalent to marriage because the cultural meaning of marriage and its associated benefits are intentionally withheld from same-sex couples in domestic partnerships."

    * "Permitting same-sex couples to marry will not affect the number of opposite-sex couples who marry, divorce, cohabit, have children outside of marriage or otherwise affect the stability of opposite-sex marriages."

Thank you, Judge Vaughn Walker, for your findings. You'd think these would be obvious to all.

Matter

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #4: August 06, 2010, 02:28:09 PM»
It's absolutely ridiculous that Prop 8 was even passed in the first place. It's absolutely ridiculous that people are allowed to get away with reactionary hatred of entire groups of people and actually shape the law to oppress them, but that's religious tolerance for you.

Luckily for shit-head bigots, DOMA still prevents same-sex marriage from being recognized or afforded any benefits on a federal level (including social security, medicare, child support, joint adoption, spousal immigration, numerous tax benefits, etc.), and even when gay partners have all of the relevant legal documentation, shit like this still happens.

Joel

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #5: August 06, 2010, 03:04:53 PM»
i agree with matter.

it's pretty pathetic that the law was ever passed in the first place. it shouldn't have to be elaborated on why i believe this, it should be pretty self-explanatory, but obviously the bible thumping bigots haven't yet adapted to the idea. i don't think religion should ever be blown to a proportion in which it affects or influences other people that aren't even apart of that particular religion nor agree with their beliefs; especially in a negative way. to the point where even laws exists that are basically biased to the majority, and those laws are dehumanizing certain groups. and it's complete bullshit.

Cup Ramen

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #6: August 06, 2010, 04:38:06 PM»
I am really happy prop 8 is overturned, but I don't think it will stay that way for good yet. The judge overseeing this case, mentioned by Masha, is an openly gay individual. That does not interfere with his ability to judge, but it does give him obvious bias. The population against gay marriage (apparently 52% of voters according to the news show I watched*) will definitely exploit that. This won't be the last of prop 8, but this is still a step. I don't think you'll ever find a completely unbiased person.

*This is just what I have gathered so far. I just got home from being almost completely cut off from American news for a month, so I haven't had much time to research it.

Offline Julie

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #7: August 06, 2010, 06:17:29 PM»
i'm unsure how many of you watch the Kathy Griffin show (ilher), but she did one episode in which she basically went around asking people how they voted when it came to prop 8, and it was startling how many people she asked voted incorrectly. they thought they voted AGAINST passing prop 8, when they actually voted FOR prop 8. episode clip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNCQN2IWqgs&feature=related

not to mention when they acutally spoke to some people, appealed to whether gay marriage will affect their life directly, they were more willing to change their minds.

Offline Masha

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #8: August 06, 2010, 07:50:27 PM»
I am really happy prop 8 is overturned, but I don't think it will stay that way for good yet. The judge overseeing this case, mentioned by Masha, is an openly gay individual. That does not interfere with his ability to judge, but it does give him obvious bias. The population against gay marriage (apparently 52% of voters according to the news show I watched*) will definitely exploit that. This won't be the last of prop 8, but this is still a step. I don't think you'll ever find a completely unbiased person.

*This is just what I have gathered so far. I just got home from being almost completely cut off from American news for a month, so I haven't had much time to research it.

Good counter argument: "Well, obviously the lawmakers/judges/etc against this are openly straight, and thus biased!" Though I doubt the logic would turn any heads.

Offline Julie

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #9: August 06, 2010, 09:49:34 PM»
I am really happy prop 8 is overturned, but I don't think it will stay that way for good yet. The judge overseeing this case, mentioned by Masha, is an openly gay individual. That does not interfere with his ability to judge, but it does give him obvious bias. The population against gay marriage (apparently 52% of voters according to the news show I watched*) will definitely exploit that. This won't be the last of prop 8, but this is still a step. I don't think you'll ever find a completely unbiased person.

*This is just what I have gathered so far. I just got home from being almost completely cut off from American news for a month, so I haven't had much time to research it.

Good counter argument: "Well, obviously the lawmakers/judges/etc against this are openly straight, and thus biased!" Though I doubt the logic would turn any heads.

i wouldn't say he's biased just because he's gay... he probably had to go through the same ridicule that gays go through, and also the shock that he felt personally as the same law he works for and defends, took away his right to be happy and married to his partner.

Offline Sheikah

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #10: August 06, 2010, 11:00:27 PM»
I heard this and breathed a sigh of relief! I agree that this won't be the last we hear of it, but this is certainly a refreshing reprieve from the prior injustice. I'm truly very glad for this~

Offline Cardali

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #11: August 06, 2010, 11:43:31 PM»
obviously the bible thumping bigots haven't yet adapted to the idea

joel, why does this remind me of westboro baptist?

Offline Mayim

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #12: August 06, 2010, 11:56:23 PM»
"There is something deeply wrong in putting the rights of a minority up to a majority vote."
Thank you, Evan Wolfson.

All I have to say, other than grats Cali.

Matter

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #13: August 07, 2010, 03:12:33 AM»
That does not interfere with his ability to judge, but it does give him obvious bias.
Heaven forbid minorities have a say in their own rights! All groups should be represented by heterosexual white males, because that's the normal and default way to be born.


Cup Ramen

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #14: August 07, 2010, 03:14:07 PM»
That does not interfere with his ability to judge, but it does give him obvious bias.
Heaven forbid minorities have a say in their own rights! All groups should be represented by heterosexual white males, because that's the normal and default way to be born.



I'm not saying that at all. When I think about it, there really is no way to make this completely fair, but people will exploit the fact that the judge is homosexual. That's all.

Joel

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #15: August 07, 2010, 06:00:08 PM»
obviously the bible thumping bigots haven't yet adapted to the idea

joel, why does this remind me of westboro baptist?
that's who i was secretly referring to.

Offline Glory

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #16: August 13, 2010, 03:03:30 PM»
... is an openly gay individual. That does not interfere with his ability to judge, but it does give him obvious bias.

1) Heterosexual would be just as biased.
2) They didn't exploit it during the case, because it would be a stupid idea.
3) A stupid idea because judges use the constitution as evidence to support their ruling.

God forbid we let America be diverse!
No women judges for abortion or child custody. No females, disabled people, religious bodies, old/young ages, or GAYS be allowed to implement anti-discrimination ordinances. ect.

Anyways, the stay is off and gay marriage is to return next week!*
*Granted that pro prop 8 don't get another stay from the next court district up.
I don't use this website much.

Joel

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #17: August 13, 2010, 08:32:45 PM»
... is an openly gay individual. That does not interfere with his ability to judge, but it does give him obvious bias.

1) Heterosexual would be just as biased.
not necessarily, because it wouldn't directly affect a heterosexual; but that aside. i'm not quite sure whether or not you're grasping what suzy is trying to say, or maybe that's on my end. but, regardless if a heterosexual would be biased or not, it wouldn't be pessimistically viewed upon or pointed out as it would be for a homosexual judge.

Cup Ramen

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #18: August 14, 2010, 12:11:01 AM»
I personally don't think it's wrong for the judge to be homosexual.. I'm just saying that other people are likely to take advantage of that when arguing against his decision. I should have been clearer on that. You're right that the constitution is the best evidence and is not influenced by his sexuality.

Offline Narnia

Re: prop 8 - OVERTURNED!
«Reply #19: August 14, 2010, 07:17:23 PM»
It doesn't matter if he's heterosexual or not since his decision was so clearly written. When its reviewed by the CoA, they can't overturn it because the judge was gay. They have to overturn it on legal principles.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."