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Author Topic: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen  (Read 2566 times)

Offline Mifune

Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«: April 11, 2010, 01:47:39 AM»
"N.Y. Times, Washington Post both report that the president has taken a step beyond where even George Bush would go"

I'm guessing the majority of you have already heard about this. Basically Obama authorized the assassination of a man thought to be a recruiter for a terrorist organization. There will be no trial.

I find this disgusting. Don't get me wrong, had this guy been convicted, I would have been all for his execution. Without allowing the man to defend himself, they'll never know whether he'd been under duress, or suffered from some sort of mental disability.

What are your thoughts on it?


Offline 유진

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #1: April 11, 2010, 02:09:51 AM»
Oh wow, that's lame. They shouldn't have the right to decide something like that, at least not without a fair trial. Oh and what do you mean by "thought' to be a recruiter? So they have no proof, or you're just understating it? Either way I agree with you, but I don't get why Obama (or anyone) would do that, though it's not really much of a surprise coming from him.
Mary had a lamb
His eyes black as coals
If we play very quiet, my lamb
Mary never has to know

Electric Guitar

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #2: April 11, 2010, 02:25:42 AM»
No, I haven't heard of this because I tend to shy away from watching the news to avoid political bullshit and fear mongering. I see it's alive and kicking.

To avoid the large amounts of shitty aol/yahoo news articles being sired as we speak, here are both articles Mifune neglected to post:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html?hp

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/06/AR2010040604121.html?hpid=topnews

I found the Washington Post's article particularly helpful in putting into detail why this man is on the CIA hit-list as Mifune also neglected to explain. (lol mental disability)

Obama bashing is as popular as DEP bashing these days.

/grumpy2ampost


Electric Guitar

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #3: April 11, 2010, 02:29:54 AM»
Oh wow, that's lame. They shouldn't have the right to decide something like that, at least not without a fair trial. Oh and what do you mean by "thought' to be a recruiter? So they have no proof, or you're just understating it? Either way I agree with you, but I don't get why Obama (or anyone) would do that, though it's not really much of a surprise coming from him.

Oh wait not done. You think Obama up and decides to put someone on the CIA hit-list without proof?

My god it's like a bunch of sheep being herded off a cliff.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 02:34:30 AM by Wind »

Offline 유진

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #4: April 11, 2010, 03:09:15 AM»
Actually yeah, I would. Obama isn't special because he's black. Everyone takes terrorism so fucking seriously it's not as if something like that would be SO unlikely. Don't tell me that it's wrong to bash Obama, which I wasn't either way. He's already bullshitted more than enough to deserve it.
Mary had a lamb
His eyes black as coals
If we play very quiet, my lamb
Mary never has to know

Electric Guitar

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #5: April 11, 2010, 04:37:10 PM»
Actually yeah, I would. Obama isn't special because he's black. Everyone takes terrorism so fucking seriously it's not as if something like that would be SO unlikely. Don't tell me that it's wrong to bash Obama, which I wasn't either way. He's already bullshitted more than enough to deserve it.

1. Obama is only half black. js
2. Are you saying terrorism shouldn't be taken seriously? Here's a quote from the Washington Post:

"He's recently become an operational figure for al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula," said a second U.S. official. "He's working actively to kill Americans, so it's both lawful and sensible to try to stop him." The official stressed that there are "careful procedures our government follows in these kinds of cases, but U.S. citizenship hardly gives you blanket protection overseas to plot the murder of your fellow citizens."

3. It's similar to a George Bush scenario. Blame the figurehead we elected and pay no attention to Congress. Everybody wins except the poor fool we elected as president. :D

Offline 유진

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #6: April 11, 2010, 06:46:40 PM»
Lmao. aight aight.
Mary had a lamb
His eyes black as coals
If we play very quiet, my lamb
Mary never has to know

Electric Guitar

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #7: April 11, 2010, 07:23:10 PM»
I am confused. I thought this was the In-Depth Talk forum?  ???

Offline LSD

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #8: April 11, 2010, 08:48:41 PM»
No, I haven't heard of this because I tend to shy away from watching the news to avoid political bullshit and fear mongering. I see it's alive and kicking.

To avoid the large amounts of shitty aol/yahoo news articles being sired as we speak, here are both articles Mifune neglected to post:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.html?hp

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/06/AR2010040604121.html?hpid=topnews

I found the Washington Post's article particularly helpful in putting into detail why this man is on the CIA hit-list as Mifune also neglected to explain. (lol mental disability)

Obama bashing is as popular as DEP bashing these days.

/grumpy2ampost


poster should generally include links on the subject matter when it's a topic of this kind of material, in my opinion, similar to the previous unresearched topic on bannings on furcadia. otherwise it's kind of like pulling quotes out of your ass and expecting people to eat it up/believe it/discuss something that hasn't been cited. thank you wind. your insight on the topic at hand is appreciated, on my end. george w. bush approved of some fucked up shit and 'ignored' some fucked up shit that was going on after these approvals. if the approval of the government to kill this one guy who is a threat with good reason pisses you off just because he is a u.s. citizen and should have u.s. rights merely because he is such, then why don't you take a second to think about all the other people who lost their rights in the vein of war criminal action against them, how many alleged 'terrorists' we did hear about that were being detained and tortured on grounds of being suspected of doing something, of being involved in something, to inhumane levels. all the 'terrorists' you didn't hear about that were brought to the same level, or killed before it even mattered to anyone, because who the hell is going to hear about it when you're covert ops in another country. and how about all the citizens that were fine before we fucking got there, brought into chaos and destruction just because someone had a 'hunch' (that was admitted to be falsified later on). or have you heard about the journalists that were gunned downed by helicopters without good reason? [wikileaks has it featured on the front page.]"that camera looked like a gun" is not a good reason, and the gunning of the van of folks trying to do help those caught in the bullet storm on the ground because "there was a van going around picking up terrorists earlier this week" (which is a nonsensical fact never cited nor confirmed ANYWHERE by ANYONE), and we're only hearing about this shit 3 years later? in my opinion, though i hadn't come across the issue before, now that i've informed myself i think that at least he's fucking telling us what is actually what, where, when, why, and how, instead of dancing around the fucking subject like he's the supreme master of all, and why should he give a straight answer when we're all obviously in 'mortal danger omg no 9-11 blah blah bullshit.' nope, i'd say this is something george w. bush wouldn't do, i'll have to agree with the poster on this one point, but that's because he wouldn't have given any of us the same fucking courtesies that obama has until the deed had already been done.

[http://vimeo.com/5341482]
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 09:17:03 PM by LSD »
alts in thread, quitting


Offline Narnia

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #9: April 11, 2010, 09:52:32 PM»
Why is this a surprise? I'm sure that U.S. Government makes people disappear every day. Why do you think we have the FISA Court?

Where do you really want this conversation to go though?
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline Mifune

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #10: April 11, 2010, 11:36:58 PM»
It's being publicized. I understand there's been quite a few screw-ups that have been publicized, but here they're flat-out saying we're going to do it. The reason I'm so against it is because people seem to be finding it acceptable. If it's deemed acceptable, it could be used more frequently. I'm sure when capital punishment was first used people were against it as well. But as time went on it became acceptable.

I started this topic because I was interested to see people's opinions on it. Whether they found it acceptable or not. As for the posting of information part, I had no idea. I read over the rules but hadn't seen anything about it. I'm rather new here.

I'm wondering whether people find it acceptable, and whether they'd want it to be used as a mean of dealing with people in the future.

Offline fern

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #11: April 12, 2010, 05:52:50 AM»
he definitely had it coming.
his entire family should also be shot. guilty by association, and all.

Matter

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #12: April 12, 2010, 07:51:07 AM»
Quote
Obama isn't special because he's black.
this "you only like obama because he's black" argument is almost as stupid as the people who believe it

you know some of us really don't give a shit about his race

Offline Narnia

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #13: April 12, 2010, 05:25:45 PM»
I really don't have an issue with this, public or not. You're making this out to be that the US Government is going to just start shooting random innocent civilians. I have no problem shooting someone on the CIA/FBI/NSA most wanted list because you don't just randomly end up on those lists.

However, I'm also all for shooting anyone that runs from the cops. Why? Because if you're running you must have something to hide.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline Cardali

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #14: April 12, 2010, 06:14:27 PM»
I really don't have an issue with this, public or not. You're making this out to be that the US Government is going to just start shooting random innocent civilians. I have no problem shooting someone on the CIA/FBI/NSA most wanted list because you don't just randomly end up on those lists.

However, I'm also all for shooting anyone that runs from the cops. Why? Because if you're running you must have something to hide.

i have to agree with what narnia is saying.
there's a huge difference between shooting an innocent citizen who hasn't done anything wrong, and shooting someone who is affiliated with an organization that had(has) a part in the terrorism that's going on.

and that's not saying that this guy is completely innocent or 100% guilty. if they have enough evidence piled up against him as it appears they do, they have the right to assassinate him. just because he's a u.s. citizen doesn't make him immune to the law, especially with all the people who have died as a direct result of terrorism. if the lives of innocent u.s. citizens can be saved by killing this guilty man, i'm all for it - trial or not.

i'm well aware that everyone is supposed to get a "fair trial" in this country, but it sounds like the man who is being assassinated doesn't support any of our basic rights or anything that is guaranteed by the constitution. and if he doesn't, i see no reason why he should get a trial when he's actively killing americans.

Offline Mifune

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #15: April 12, 2010, 09:35:44 PM»
Regardless of how much information is piled up against him, (Though he probably is guilty) he should still be given a fair trial. If they do know his whereabouts, there's nothing really stopping them from apprehending him. We aren't told anything aside from what the press tells us. Certain information such as this is completely useless and only serves the purpose of creating hype.

Quote
Aulaqi corresponded by e-mail with Maj. Nidal M. Hasan, the Army psychiatrist accused of killing 12 soldiers and one civilian at Fort Hood, Tex., last year. Aulaqi is not believed to have helped plan the attack, although he praised Hasan in an online posting for carrying it out.

Since he is a U.S. Citizen he should be given a fair trial since it would be infringing on his rights. The word Suspected and Alleged tend to pop up several times, because he hasn't been given a trial it can't be concluded that there weren't interfering factors. Let's say you're contacted by a terrorist organization who's kidnapped your entire family and forces you to do their bidding. If you don't, or go to the authorities, they'll kill them. Obviously in the eyes of your government you're a terrorist. But they'll never know what really happened, since you'll never be given a fair trial.

Now don't get me wrong, in this specific case the probability of him having done it is pretty high. So an assassination wouldn't really be out of the question, aside from the fact that he is a U.S. Citizen and they're completely ignoring his rights. If this is deemed acceptable, you're allowing the government to ignore your rights if they see fit. Now truthfully they're not going to go around killing innocent people. But 100-years down the line, a husband kills runs over his cheating wife in a crime of passion, and goes into hiding because he's fearful of being executed. Who's to say assassination won't become the new capital punishment.

Again. I'm not defending what he did or saying that he's innocent. He needs to be put to execution. I just think it should be done in a more acceptable way. I'm sort of playing devil's advocate.

Offline Zim

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #16: April 12, 2010, 10:20:14 PM»
Quote
N.Y. Times, Washington Post both report that the president has taken a step beyond where even George Bush would go"

So wait. Bush ordering a war that killed thousands of innocents is better than Obama ordering the assassination of one guy who is suspected to have links to terrorist groups?

What?

I'm only mean out of necessity.

Offline Narnia

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #17: April 12, 2010, 10:49:09 PM»
Since you think all U.S. Citizens are entitled to a trial, you may have missed the portion of the U.S. Patriot Act that says Terrorists don't get trials.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline Sheikah

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #18: April 15, 2010, 02:17:53 AM»
Since you think all U.S. Citizens are entitled to a trial, you may have missed the portion of the U.S. Patriot Act that says Terrorists don't get trials.
/thread

Vince

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #19: April 16, 2010, 04:49:41 AM»
some people are under the impression that obama is the only one who put the call for the assassination in place. and i'm assuming that those same people are the ones who were crying about bush -- and only bush -- entering us into an illegal war. spoilers: you can't do anything like either of those instances without the approval from congress.

Offline Mifune

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #20: April 16, 2010, 12:58:42 PM»
While reading through the numerous articles posted on the net, along with the statements made by representatives, it seems as though he's a suspect. It doesn't seem as though there's enough evidence to hold up in court. Even the list he's been put on has the word suspected in it. In every statement they claim that it's believed that he is linked to the two terrorist acts. Should the words suspected and believed be thrown around when it comes to dealing with somebody's life?

Regardless of whether or not he is guilty, the method in which they are doing it is disgusting. Even if there isn't going to be a trial, rather than assassinating him in an organized manner, they've been authorized to kill him at any chance they get, no matter where he is or what he's doing. Even if there's children present, or he's in a public place. How is this considered moral at all?

Offline Cardali

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #21: April 16, 2010, 01:07:47 PM»
Quote
How is this considered moral at all?

how is what he's "suspected" of doing considered moral?

Offline Mifune

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #22: April 16, 2010, 02:31:36 PM»
It's not, which is why he should be dealt with. I just don't see why they'd go that far. Two wrongs don't make a right. There are alternatives.

Offline reallygreatcookies

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #23: April 16, 2010, 04:48:49 PM»
It's not, which is why he should be dealt with. I just don't see why they'd go that far. Two wrongs don't make a right. There are alternatives.

Well, "two wrongs don't make a right" is nice in theory, but we're not talking about schoolyard bullying.  This is a matter of national security--He chose his path, he knew the consequences, and his right to due process was forfeit.  They wouldn't just jump the gun without lots and lots of evidence, so I think it's safe to say this man isn't innocent..

edit:  lol "new"
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 11:09:14 PM by Cemetery »

Offline fern

Re: Obama authorizes assassination of U.S. citizen
«Reply #24: April 16, 2010, 06:00:18 PM»
news articles use the word "suspected" because he hasn't(and won't) be tried.
they don't list evidence because it would be a splendidly bad idea for the officials to release their shit on this guy when he's not even in their custody.