supersaver

Author Topic: Selling Premade Designs  (Read 1372 times)

Offline Eevee

Selling Premade Designs
«: February 15, 2010, 12:53:02 AM»
This topic has been circling my head for years and I've come to the conclusion I'd like to hear FAM's opinion.

When you sell an alt that comes with a design, you lose all rights to the design other than having created it. The alt's design becomes the new owner's to do with as they please.
Any art that comes with it is © the artists, but the character portrayed is now © the new owner of the alt.

So by this, you should be allowed to change the design some or transfer the design and ports to a new name if you wanted to because you bought the rights to the alt that the previous owner gave up upon selling the design with the alt.

The same goes with unnamed premade designs created on a whim.

So why do some people who have maybe either drawn the character (port or other type of art) or created the design get anal about the new owner wanting to change things about the design or change the character's name?


Personally, I see no problem in a new owner changing things about a character they bought from someone else because the character is now theirs to do with as they please. The original creator nor previous owner have no say in what the new owner does since they gave up their possession of the character upon selling it.

I've changed a few things about alts I bought that came with designs. I didn't even ask the original creators, mainly cus I either lost track/contact with them, but you know what? I don't care if they're disappointed or upset should they find out because I paid for the character and its design and they gave it up all together.

I hope I'm not the only one who has witnessed old owners of alts getting mad at slight or drastic changes in designs to fully fit the new owner's tastes. Or getting mad because new owners of alts transferred ports from the alt to another alt due to multiple designs on the alt or feel the name doesn't fit the design or have another design ready for the name.


What are your opinions on © of characters/designs and creator/old owner vs new owner

--------------

on a side note to unnamed premade designs, I've seen a little rule circling on FurAffinity with premade designs that goes something like "you must draw the character at least ONCE within 24-48 hours of adopting or the design will go to someone else."

some people tagging that little rule are charging per design and don't even mention refunding someone if the person doesn't draw the design within said timeframe and the creator resells to someone else. What if the person suddenly doesn't have time to draw within that time frame and has no way of telling the person they got it from? I can understand not wanting it to go to waste by not being used, but putting a time limit on drawing the design and threatening to resell to someone else if you don't draw it in time? And not mentioning a refund?

Doesn't this seem wrong?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 12:55:30 AM by Eevee »


Offline -

Re: Selling Premade Designs
«Reply #1: February 15, 2010, 12:58:27 AM»
if a person is worried about their character design being moved or cleared, they shouldn't be including the design when selling the alt.

if i were to move a portrait from a character i bought, to another, i'd probably ask the artist's permission. or at least inform the artist that i was moving the portrait to another alt. just to avoid the "did you steal that portrait??" accusation.

contact: anders

Vince

Re: Selling Premade Designs
«Reply #2: February 15, 2010, 01:05:49 AM»
i don't normally buy designs that come with alts, but i'd say i don't give a shit whether the original "designer" of the alt gets a hissy fit because fuck you, you sold it, not yours anymore, tough shit, get over it.

Offline Eevee

Re: Selling Premade Designs
«Reply #3: February 15, 2010, 01:08:54 AM»
@ butter: updating the artist on what name a port is being moved to is probably the only reason to contact the artist about a port other than maybe asking if edits are allowed to be made as new owner and if the artist is willing to make the edits if uncomfortable with the new owner doing them.

@ vince: LOL ilu. i've seen a case where the old owner/original creator harassed the new owner for transferring a port to a friend's alt because it didn't match the other ports on the alt at all. And harassed the new owner's friend even more so.

Offline Tain

Re: Selling Premade Designs
«Reply #4: February 15, 2010, 03:18:03 AM»
idk how people throw designs out on a whim. It takes me atleast a month to fully design a character and to figure their little quirks & such. but i guess i might just be a bit more in depth when creating OCs.
 though, if i bought an alt with a design i'd personally just work out a deal to transfer the ports to one of the sellers other alts.

but regarding having to draw the character within so long? yeah, no. I don't see how anyone would even agree with that. on like dA people have applications for designs where you have to fill out a personality and make a ref for them, but those are free and not $5 - $20. (which imo is ridiculous)

Electric Guitar

Re: Selling Premade Designs
«Reply #5: February 15, 2010, 03:45:52 PM»
If you were that attached to the design, you wouldn't have sold it off in the first place. :B

Offline Sheikah

Re: Selling Premade Designs
«Reply #6: February 15, 2010, 04:00:08 PM»
I personally believe that once I sell a design to someone, the art isnt (c) them, just the character shown, as you mentioned before.  I feel they can change whatever they'd  like to about the character, but my personal policy is that they dont touch my original artwork.

Even so...pretty much what has been said. You sold it, it's not yours anymore, tough biscuits.  If you didnt want it moved/changed/whatever perhaps you ought not to have sold it~

 it's a risk people take when selling designs/etc and I personally feel you MUST be ready to accept the fact people WILL change something on it at some point.

If they cant, they have no business including it in the sale.

Offline Light

Re: Selling Premade Designs
«Reply #7: February 15, 2010, 04:13:15 PM»
My opinions are pretty much the same as Tombstone's. The rights to the character are yours to change, mess up, etc., once you paid for it, but not the art or creativity. Isn't that basically the same as claiming you drew it when you really didn't? Because if you claim you drew/designed it, isn't that kind of like theft? I think you should be able to change the design as you please, but not claim that you drew it, is all.

If you sell a design, that's your choice. I'm one of the people who buys a design, and will openly tweek with it a bit before I'm satisfied. Especially if I paid for it, because I'm buying the rights to alter, change, and use the DESIGN. If the old owner bitches, well, that's their problem. They sold it, I wanted it for my own reasons, they gave up the rights to it. Easy as that.

If you didn't want it changed, then don't sell it. It's NOT a hard concept to grasp.

PS: I also think that this LOL DRAW IT IN X AMOUNT OF TIME OR IT'S NOT YOURS!! rule is bullshit. I can't draw, nor do I have the incentive to draw or commission someone. It's my design, I bought it, so it's my choice to draw it or not. The old owner has NO right taking it back, regardless of if I'm not using it or not, and reselling it/giving it to someone else.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 04:25:13 PM by Light »

~✨~✨~✨~✨~✨~✨~✨~✨~✨~✨~
whisper*: ☠ burnet | ☠ guzma | ☠ ilima | ☠ light | ☠ nahyuta | ☠ peridot | ☠ rick
* PLEASE note I get on mobile a lot, and as such if I don't respond to your whisper, send me a PM or try again later. There is a 99% chance I missed it.
** icon from here and is not my art.

Joel

Re: Selling Premade Designs
«Reply #8: February 23, 2010, 09:34:40 PM»
i've seen narnia and victor both express my exact opinion on it in previous threads. when you sell off a design, you don't own it anymore therefore cannot decide whether or not they can change, alter, or sell it. sometimes if they give a warning before it's sold, it'd be nice to be respectful of the artist and follows their ~*rules*~, but you don't have to. but if you buy an alt with a design already on it? it just gives more of a right to change the design, or remove and sell off even.

if you buy something at a garage sale, and decide you don't want it a while after, you have every right to go and give it away, or anything along those lines really. and the same applies in this case.

but personally, i've never seen a policy with an artist stating anything such as you can't change the character to fit your preferences, and i agree that you have the right to once you own the design.

on a side note to unnamed premade designs, I've seen a little rule circling on FurAffinity with premade designs that goes something like "you must draw the character at least ONCE within 24-48 hours of adopting or the design will go to someone else."
what is this i dont even

i don't normally buy designs that come with alts, but i'd say i don't give a shit whether the original "designer" of the alt gets a hissy fit because fuck you, you sold it, not yours anymore, tough shit, get over it.
exactly.

Offline fern

Re: Selling Premade Designs
«Reply #9: February 25, 2010, 06:27:02 AM»
If you were that attached to the design, you wouldn't have sold it off in the first place. :B

Offline Julie

Re: Selling Premade Designs
«Reply #10: February 26, 2010, 01:11:27 PM»
okay, this is how i see it:

if you sell a premade portrait, the art is still copyrighted to you, and the new owner cannot change it if you don't allow them the right to. if they do, even if they give you credit for the original, it's still illegal for them to do so since you told them NOT to. the copyright to the design and the art does not pass ownership just because the art itself does.

i apply this same idea to designs. selling a premade design, whether it be attached to a character or JUST the design, means the copyright to the design is still yours even though you have sold it and if you don't want someone changing it, then they can't. if they request a few changes and you oblige, then all is hunky dory and no wrong has been done.

if someone buys an alt and it comes with a design, but they dont WANT the design and the creator of the design gets angry with the new owner re-designing it (this is a lot of 'design', oman) i really don't understand why they would get mad.... you sold the name, and if the new owner doesn't like how the character looks, they do have the right to change it as long as it's not adding/subtracting from the original design that you created.

if you want to change the design slightly, you should be upfront with the owner before YOU do anything with it in the first place, and make sure it's okay with them before you make any edits. it usually saves a lot of hell.



i don't have troubles with this because i bypass this whole scenario by only selling names, removing portraits, and giving the old character's design to another one of my character if i like the design that much. i also don't buy names JUST for the design.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 01:14:11 PM by Julie »

Offline Fallon

Re: Selling Premade Designs
«Reply #11: March 07, 2010, 03:20:47 PM»
This is why I like to buy naked names.

About a year ago I sold a premade to a player who heavily edited the port to where it didn't even look like mine anymore without informing me. I got a ton of whispers/Pm's about a possible art theft, however I later learned it was the same person I sold it to. That is when I get pissed.

As for changing characters, I really don't care as long as I know the name so if they do get accused for art theft I know that it's really not.