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Author Topic: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.  (Read 2010 times)

Electric Guitar

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So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«: November 08, 2009, 08:51:12 AM»
It's a bit surreal to wake up and see that your government has a new health care system. To be honest, it has me a little bit worried. Don't get me wrong. I'm very much a liberal. However, I've had second thoughts about it. My mom told me I wouldn't have been able to afford the surgery I had last summer.

That's the other thing. My mom works for a large life flight company and that's why we even have insurance. How will this affect people who work in the medical industry and their families? How will this affect our economy and society as a whole?

It's such a large radical change I'm sure I'm not the only one contemplating this. Discuss your thoughts and feelings on the issue. Or better yet, explain to me the pro and cons to this health care system.


Electric Guitar

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #1: November 08, 2009, 04:13:41 PM»
Whoops. Realized that it hasn't officially passed yet. Still got a go through Senate. Still, I'd like to discuss further.

Offline Ilsa

Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #2: November 08, 2009, 04:49:47 PM»
I know far too many people without insurance who could use medical care but can't get it because they can't afford the sky high cost of doctors and medicine without insurance.

And medical bills are the leading cause of personal bankruptcy.

Offline Narnia

Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #3: November 08, 2009, 07:20:00 PM»
You should never be denied insurance because of a pre-existing condition. This fixes that.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Shamwow

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #4: November 08, 2009, 07:28:48 PM»
speaking of pre-existing conditions. apparently a 6 month old was denied because he was a little chunky. and another was denied because they were too thin.

and apparently pregnancy is a pre-existing condition.

i just follow my mum's advice, "if you get sick, we're screwed."

Electric Guitar

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #5: November 08, 2009, 07:50:12 PM»
What I worry about is this being used as another government hand out like welfare. Good in theory, but abused far too much. I've never liked the idea of handouts to those who won't work for them. People that raise their kids on taxpayer money and never get a job.

I've heard that the people are also a large factor in driving up health care costs by being too needy. I read/heard a suggestion that people should be more conservative in how often they see their doctor. Too many cases of people going in for a minor cold.

Is the money coming from the public? From what I've gathered, it's supposedly coming from taxes on large income persons and employers. However, I've seen a lot hysterics ranting that there will be no middle class if this bill is passed and the public will be taxed. Also, if the employers are required to pay couldn't cause a larger unemployment rate with employers having to drop people due to expensive health care costs?

 


Offline Ilsa

Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #6: November 08, 2009, 09:15:02 PM»
What I worry about is this being used as another government hand out like welfare. Good in theory, but abused far too much. I've never liked the idea of handouts to those who won't work for them. People that raise their kids on taxpayer money and never get a job.

I work 40 hours a week. So do my two roommates. WE pay taxes, we do our civic duties. We're good Americans.

None of us have medical insurance, dental insurance, or eye insurance.

We totally unworthy handouts because our companies don't give us insurance or have revoked it due to the sky high costs that employers get charged by insurance companies.

I know a single father, he's a widower with 100,000 dollars or so in debt after his wife died from fighting cancer without insurance. He's denied TANF (welfare) because apparently 700 dollars a month is too much. He's disabled due to a disability.

He appears to have severe depression and diabetes aside from his disability, and despite the fact that he should be getting medicare he is not able to because they refuse to waive the part B co-payment of 100 dollars a month.

Guess who can't go see a doctor?

It's likely he'll probably die soon, either from the diabetes or he'll just kill himself. In the end, it'll leave his eight year old some completely alone. That's totally abusing "welfare", amirite?

I've heard that the people are also a large factor in driving up health care costs by being too needy. I read/heard a suggestion that people should be more conservative in how often they see their doctor. Too many cases of people going in for a minor cold.

Many people don't go see the doctors because they can't afford the hundreds of dollars to see them. Some people with insurance don't go to the doctor because they can't afford it even with the copayments.

Needing anti-depressants so you don't kill yourself, or insulin, or meds to help with Chronic Bronchitis are totally minor and we should be conservative. Maybe dying would be better for the good of all, y'know?

My bipolar schizo disabled neighbor should be more conservative with seeing the doctor and taking advantage of our current commy medical system when getting the medicine that doesn't make her BATSHIT INSANE.

Is the money coming from the public? From what I've gathered, it's supposedly coming from taxes on large income persons and employers.

The money comes from lots of places. If you'd done any research into Obama care you might understand the whole thing a little more.

Last time I did research to see how much I would have to pay for insurance for myself, it looked to be about 200-300/mo, that's not considering my pre-existing osteoarthritis, chronic bronchitis, or major depressive disorder. I would expect to have to pay 75% of my monthly pay to have the luxury of copayments which will still land me at least -100 to -150 in the hole every month for meds.

However, I've seen a lot hysterics ranting that there will be no middle class if this bill is passed and the public will be taxed.

Actually, the middle class is already dying at this point after eight years of the bush regime and trickle down economics. My parents went from being middle class to barely breaking the poverty line, just like so many other people I know of.

Also, if the employers are required to pay couldn't cause a larger unemployment rate with employers having to drop people due to expensive health care costs?

Having lived in the real world and researched things, I think the insurance companies are grossly overcharging for their services. Companies that make ungodly amounts of money for medication that honestly can't cost nearly as much as insurance companies and uninsured people pay for things.

How much of a doctor's cost comes from having to pay sky high costs for malpractice insurance?

Does it really cost the manufacturing company 150 dollars for 30 pills of anti-depressant?

How much of the cost of the current medical system is from unrightfully onerous costs by money-grubbing companies?


I would strongly suggest that those who are living at home under mommy and daddy's roof and medical insurance step away from this subject. Naive viewpoints on this particular issue are exceedingly irritating.

Shamwow

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #7: November 08, 2009, 09:50:35 PM»
maybe i'm just dimwitted. but when did getting medical help cost people an arm and a leg?

my mom went to the emergency room because she thought she was having heart problems, turns out it was just acid reflux or something. i remember her being dumbfounded at the bill she was given. it was around 500, just for them to tell her, "oh you'll be fine." no tests or anything were done.

as for people being too needy, that's just ridiculous. so people wanting to function normally and be able to provide for their families, that's being needy now?

you know who'll automatically be given insurance, no matter what pre-existing conditions they have? insurance ceo's. it's pathetic.

i'm on the verge of adulthood and i already feel like i'm royally screwed when it comes to insurance. i can't imagine going to the hospital, having to pay those fees ON TOP of college education fees.

idk

Electric Guitar

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #8: November 08, 2009, 10:40:31 PM»
Why do you have to be so insulting Ilsa? The whole reason I started this thread is so I get a better understanding on the issue.

1. First of all, I'm not at all saying that there aren't people out that don't welfare. What I did say is there are a lot of people that abuse it. The person you mentioned is deserving of it and it's a shame he can't be covered when there when there are people out there that abuse the system.

2. I have done research into health plan. However, it's hard to sort through so many biased opinions. Same as any other major political issue. I started this thread to toss out a few uncertainties and questions that I had.

3. What about the small businesses? If they can't afford to cover their employees is that where the government pitches in? Or all businesses required? I can certainly see it for large/wealthy businesses.

4. No argument there. However I hear it both ways. Liberals blame the economy on Bush, (so do I). Conservatives blame it on Clinton interestingly enough.

5. So you are encouraging people not to educate themselves? How are you supposed to convince people anything if you deem them too stupid to figure it out before even giving them a chance?

I don't live under my parent's roof. I'm on my mom's insurance. That's it. And if I can't remain a full time student I get kicked off that insurance. Once I'm of age I get kicked from that insurance anyway. I've thought and I've worried about paying for my health insurance. That's a large part of why I'm interested in the topic. Maybe I'm naive in the aspect that I've never had to pay health insurance, but don't you dare take my naivety as ungratefulness. I've seen what it's like for those not covered or not covered for well. Don't take me for a fool. Though I don't pay for insurance, I work, I pay my taxes, I pay for rent, I pay for my gas and I pay for my schooling like anyone else. So don't shoo me away as being a naive child.

Edit: Perhaps I should have been a little bit more clearer Aubin. Once again I'm not trying to say everybody out there is being too needy as far as health care. I remember it being a theory we discussed in our high school English class before Obama was even elected. I've heard of a lot of people on the other side of the spectrum who are denying themselves health care because of cost. I just wanted to see if anyone else had heard that theory and/or agreed with it. Sorry about that!
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 10:52:09 PM by Electric Guitar »

Offline Ilsa

Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #9: November 08, 2009, 10:57:53 PM»
Why do you have to be so insulting Ilsa? The whole reason I started this thread is so I get a better understanding on the issue.

You started blabbering a bunch of stuff you "heard", much of it that sounds the the rhetoric spewed by the local uneducated fundy hicks.

1. First of all, I'm not at all saying that there aren't people out that don't welfare. What I did say is there are a lot of people that abuse it. The person you mentioned is deserving of it and it's a shame he can't be covered when there when there are people out there that abuse the system.

And what about people like my roommates who work full time jobs without insurance?

Every time I see people talk about the health care, they talk about 'welfare' abuse, they fail to realize that many people that are without insurance are people working in America, or are people that really really are needy.

2. I have done research into health plan. However, it's hard to sort through so many biased opinions. Same as any other major political issue. I started this thread to toss out a few uncertainties and questions that I had.

Where exactly have you been doing your research?

3. What about the small businesses? If they can't afford to cover their employees is that where the government pitches in? Or all businesses required? I can certainly see it for large/wealthy businesses.

I recall things like tax breaks and initiatives for small businesses.

4. No argument there. However I hear it both ways. Liberals blame the economy on Bush, (so do I). Conservatives blame it on Clinton interestingly enough.

It's just silly that people are saying that the "middle class" is going away. It's pretty close to gone already, if anything, at least the middle class now poor people, who are likely the ones without healthcare, might be able to have some basic health needs covered.

I hate reading about people dying from things that could have been solved with simple health assistance.

5. So you are encouraging people not to educate themselves? How are you supposed to convince people anything if you deem them too stupid to figure it out before even giving them a chance?

I don't live under my parent's roof. I'm on my mom's insurance. That's it. And if I can't remain a full time student I get kicked off that insurance. Once I'm of age I get kicked from that insurance anyway. I've thought and I've worried about paying for my health insurance. That's a large part of why I'm interested in the topic. Maybe I'm naive in the aspect that I've never had to pay health insurance, but don't you dare take my naivety as ungratefulness. I've seen what it's like for those not covered or not covered for well. Don't take me for a fool. Though I don't pay for insurance, I work, I pay my taxes, I pay for rent, I pay for my gas and I pay for my schooling like anyone else. So don't shoo me away as being a naive child.

Until you're an adult, living on your own, working a full time job for a living, not under mom's medical insurance, you probably are pretty naive about the subject.

Miranii

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #10: November 08, 2009, 11:02:09 PM»

4. No argument there. However I hear it both ways. Liberals blame the economy on Bush, (so do I). Conservatives blame it on Clinton interestingly enough.


As for this, I'm conservative and I think Bush did a poor job.

Electric Guitar

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #11: November 08, 2009, 11:44:31 PM»
Point proven. :P

Electric Guitar

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #12: November 08, 2009, 11:57:37 PM»
Are you just skimming through my posts? I said that I am a legal adult, I work full time, I'm a full time college student, I don't live under my parent's roof, and live on my own/rent my own place. Was that clear enough? -_-; I even admitted that I am naive in that I have yet to pay for my own insurance. What point are you trying to prove in making look like I am less intelligent/ a lesser person then you?

As for research, I've read a few articles/news items. Again, I started this topic to learn more. Not to argue with you. Enlighten me. Don't argue with me. As for the items I "blabbering about" as you put it, those came from comments I read on said articles. I never said I agreed with them. I put them out there for people to comment on so I could get a better understanding.

And fine, I guess I have to include everyone in my posts or get berated by you. You, your room mates, the man you mentioned, and a lot of people are certainly deserving of health care coverage. I never implied that you didn't. I'm also not saying everyone will abuse the system.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 12:10:57 AM by Electric Guitar »

Offline Narnia

Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #13: November 09, 2009, 06:23:55 AM»
Where you've read your news articles is important. Fox News is going to tell you things that are most likely untrue. Try going to factcheck.org for some real answers.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Electric Guitar

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #14: November 09, 2009, 08:39:48 AM»
Thank you. I will be sure to give it a read.

Matter

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #15: November 09, 2009, 11:21:33 AM»
Don't read the media's "opinions". Don't ask people on the internet to explain it to you. The answers you will receive are grossly distorted from truth and will give you no insight into anything other than personal and political prejudice. Read the actual bill and form your own opinion. If you want to see how it will play out, look at any of the countless developed countries that have had similar health care plans for years. If you don't want to expend the effort to do this, don't expect to have anything approaching the realm of an informed opinion.

If you do choose to listen to media pundits and other jackasses of their ilk, just because someone has an opinion doesn't make it any good. Instead of being reverently respectful to anyone's tripe just because they've gone through the effort of spewing it, actually examine their claims on a critical level. Do you know why some people blame the economy on Clinton, claim that Obama was born in Kenya, etc., or do you just know that they do? Trying to be inclusive of them without actually understanding the arguments just makes you look indecisive and uninformed. Egalitarianism has no place in discussion like this, because some ideas really are just fucking stupid.

Electric Guitar

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #16: November 09, 2009, 06:07:14 PM»
Thanks! To be honest, I am indecisive and I am uninformed. This thread was an attempt to change that. As you mentioned, I have come across a lot of political and personal prejudice and this thread illustrated that to a point. I was having a hard time trying to sort out the truth from so many biased opinions/news media. I'll take a look at the bill and read it word for word. I should have done that from the very beginning.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 06:09:33 PM by Electric Guitar »

Offline Narnia

Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #17: November 09, 2009, 07:15:37 PM»
FYI, the bill is over 1,000 pages long.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Electric Guitar

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #18: November 09, 2009, 07:23:07 PM»
o__o

Matter

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #19: November 09, 2009, 08:10:58 PM»
FYI, the bill is over 1,000 pages long.
And that's exactly why you should read it. It's ridiculously easy for pundits to claim something is or isn't on it because nobody is actually going to expend the effort to read it themselves.

Offline Ook

Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #20: November 16, 2009, 09:10:12 AM»
I'm from the UK - and I'd like to know what this is all about. I heard Obama has been looking at a copy of our healthcare system?

Sookan

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #21: November 26, 2009, 01:10:03 AM»
i wouldnt leave the uk for anything
nothing beats knowing i wont have to suffer some terrible illness just because 0.0001% of the population abused the system and now i have to pay extortionate fees.

it's like people are saying "this is why we cant have nice things" and shrugging off healthcare.
where do they get off letting people suffer and actually die just to avoid tax hikes
when did human life become less valuable than money?

Offline Narnia

Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #22: November 26, 2009, 07:03:06 AM»
where do they get off letting people suffer and actually die just to avoid tax hikes
when did human life become less valuable than money?

What?
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Offline Hugo

Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #23: December 19, 2009, 11:34:48 AM»
People are gonna abuse the shit out of this, employers especially.

_________________

Cup Ramen

  • Topic Author
Re: So you wake up to find we have a new health care system.
«Reply #24: December 21, 2009, 01:52:41 PM»
People will abuse anything that can be abused. I no longer believe in the honor system.