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Author Topic: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.  (Read 37521 times)

Offline Narnia

DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«: June 25, 2009, 09:12:55 AM»
I’m starting this thread so that I can see the community’s current perception of and feelings towards DEP. If you would like to participate in the thread then I ask that you follow a few simple rules:

1.   Be intelligent. I don’t want any posts along the lines of “OMG, I love them,” or “OMG, I hate them.” If you have an opinion, provide details and input about why you hold a certain opinion.

2.   Provide constructive feedback. Similar to the first rule, if you are going to post an opinion do so in a manner which will enable other readers to understand what your position is, what you feel how you do, and possibly how DEP should fix the problem.

3.   Do not flame or bash. While I understand that some posts may specifically revolve around certain DEP members as source of your contentions, make an attempt to avoid an all out flame or bash of particular staff members.

Additionally, keep in mind that this thread is in no way official. It will probably not result in any changes at DEP. However, I am interested in seeing how the major communities of FAM and FAZ currently perceive of and feel about DEP. I look forward to a conversation with the communities regarding, but not limited to, the direction of the game, the operation of the game, the game rules, the operation of their forum and their forum rules, and the personalities of and interactions with individual DEP staff members.

I have plenty of my own opinions and I will be posting them, and responding to your posts, over the coming days.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."


Offline Hugo

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #1: June 25, 2009, 11:02:33 AM»
DEP has gotten sloppy. A lot of the newer digos look rushed (IE: default portraits traced off of Google photography or utilizing free backgrounds created by users on Roamheart as well as the kiwi being a dream item with no laying pose despite running you $300.00) and/or don't mesh well with the older avatars.

Ads are full of typos or clear misspellings of common words. I don't nark on a typo here and there, but in a Furcadia description or in a Furcadia AD where you know it's going to be seen/repeated over and over, you would expect some effort to be put forth.

They also do things that don't really make any sense like putting hair on the Rabben ferians in their portraits but having none on the avatar whereas bats have none period.

_________________

Offline ADALEINE

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #2: June 25, 2009, 12:34:24 PM»
the fact that most ferian ports do NOT much the avatars irks me to no extent.

what is the point of having a portrait of the creature if its not going to be accurate?

i do realize some of the ports to OTHER avatars match, but that doesnt mean the ferians should be the exception. ~__~

Cup Ramen

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #3: June 25, 2009, 03:22:47 PM»
I agree. Especially the kiwi, it always seemed awkward to me. You would think that they would actually put some effort into pixels that they're charging you for.

Matter

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #4: June 25, 2009, 03:26:08 PM»
I wrote 3427 words about unprofessionalism but I'm just gonna post this instead

Quote
Quote
Because the hostile attitude from forum administration towards not only the "anti-cookie" sentiment, but the people involved in the discussion themselves, might have made those involved with the last discussion hesitant to actually act on the matter for fear of punishment. I'm sure this thread will travel down that same path soon enough as well.
[X] The administration is not hostile but just making sure you all follow the forum rules and perhaps stop and think about what you are doing by threads like this. The "mind your own business" rule on the forums is there to keep players from trying to force their opinions on someone else when it is really none of their concern what that person does. It is not inheirently hostile to enforce rules, it is hostile to purposefully break them.
Quote
[X] How do you know how old that person is? Why do you care? How does it possibley hurt you? If you do not like how this works, don't participate, but don't ruin the fun for those who do like participating. I'd guess by your reactions that you are around 16 and struggling with working your way through "justice" development levels. You've had a lot to say on the forum recently, most of which is about fairness. You will learn eventually to take life as it comes and worry more about how you treat others than how they treat you.
Quote
[X] Furcadia is an international community. Many people with different backgrounds, values, ethics and beliefs participate. The same applies to the audience of our forum. You'll encounter furres that have opinions that you totally disagree with, and topics that are controversial. You are entitled to your opinion, and so is everyfurre. We ask, however, that every forum participant respects the views of other furres. Agree to disagree, discuss and argue constructively -- do not resort to name-calling or slanderous accusations. Let your arguments speak for themselves without taking it to a personal level. Flames are discouraged, personal attacks and insults are a violation of the forum guidelines. Attack a furre's statement, do not attack the furre herself.

basic tl;dr: Fel seems pretty cool, Talz seems pretty cool, Gar seems pretty cool, I've never even seen sanctimonious do anything, Cironir seems like sort of a douche, Emerald Flame is definitely a douche, and I'm a douche but not responsible for representing a company.

Offline Harley

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #5: June 25, 2009, 03:42:47 PM»
One of the most recent problems I have is the things they release as pay-to-use avatars.  Seriously, a wild pig?  They should really do something like the wild Phoenix, Gryphons, and Dragons that many people have been asking for instead of going for things that are just uh, wow, y'know?  I don't think I've seen a single person with the wild pig avatar.  Granted I also don't wander around much but normally when a new avatar is out, someone is near me with it almost immediately.  It just seemed rather silly to throw in the wild pig avatar, and it isn't very appealing.  I can't say I have ever seen anyone RPing a pig at all, either as anthro or as feral.  The cost of some of the ferians is also pretty wild, in my opinion, in that it's expensive for something that is fairly small, has very little room for unique customization (chinchillas and kiwis as an example), and does nothing special (breath flames).

The biggest issue I have though is the lack of information for the supposedly still upcoming account system.  I provided a lot of suggestions per a request several years ago, and it's pretty discouraging to still not know much about what might (or might not) be coming with this.  The still present animosity some of the AiCs have towards traders is also fairly, well, disgusting, given that the trading market has been acknowledged by others in higher up positions as a common source of income.  Not saying it is the source, but that it is a major contribution.  I also feel that this aforementioned animosity is really bad for their image as the creators/leaders of their game, the representation of their company.

There's probably a lot more but I've been distancing myself from this for a long time now.  I just know that those are my biggest complaints.  I know there is (or was) a thread on the Furcadia forums about the upcoming account system, but the only person ever responding is Emerald Flame who has a very negative outlook when it comes to traders and seemingly that account system.  I'd just really like to see a new one made and updated so we can at least be aware of where this system is at.

tldr;
- Please give the community what it actually wants, not just make willy nilly things.
- Give us information about the account system.  Where is it at, what's being added, etc.  It's been five years.
- Shape up the staff image.  It's sad how many people are put off by the certain individuals and their behavior.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 03:44:57 PM by Harley »

Offline Mychelle

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #6: June 25, 2009, 04:46:48 PM»
tldr;
- Please give the community what it actually wants, not just make willy nilly things.
- Give us information about the account system.  Where is it at, what's being added, etc.  It's been five years.
- Shape up the staff image.  It's sad how many people are put off by the certain individuals and their behavior.

Was going to make out my own personal views post, but really. This right here is basically all that I completely agree with. Specially with the staff image. There is only one person on staff I even feel comfortable going to with any sort of matter. And half the time that person is so extremely busy dealing with stuff I feel bad for even bothering'em. The rest? I feel I shouldnt even waste my time.
Im letting my alts rot. So dont ask.

Offline Sedde

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #7: June 25, 2009, 07:33:51 PM»
It really bothers me just how digo-oriented Furcadia has become. Whether it's some dumb description tag or a big elaborate avatar, it's just gotten noisier in its look and, as Hugo put it, sloppier. I HATE pretty much all of the digos that came out from the lion and tygard ferians on, because they don't mesh well at all with previous avatars and the portraits are...well, it's already been said here. I also agree completely with Harley on those last three points, especially the bit about giving us what we're asking for, but I'd like to add this:

- Give the artist community more information about how the FOX editor and look of the window is going to change with the BIG SWITCH up to more colors. It's been a long time coming, but I can't help but wonder what exactly will change, and I know I'm not the only one.

Offline Narnia

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #8: June 25, 2009, 09:20:00 PM»
Emerald Flame's response to Matter's post on the Furcadia forums is why I felt the need to finally create this thread. The Furcadia forums are run like a nazi concentration camp. If you aren't a member of DEP and don't hold their specific views (or in reality, those of Emerald Flame) you are kicked to the curb and silenced. I have a major problem with how DEP runs their own forums when they consistently claim that the web presence is how they attract new players to the game. The DEP staff presence on the forum is disgusting because the only staff members consistently posting is Emerald Flame, who has nearly zero community management skills. If you are a frequenter of their forums you'll note that posts by almost every other DEP members are polite, fair, and present a great image of the company. However, the most frequent image of DEP is Emerald Flame stomping through threads like a two-year old throwing a temper-tantrum. It's a horrible image for the company.

A sentiment I expressed to DEP recently, which was not well received, is that I believe they treat their players as cash-cows now instead of people. They've lost most of their civility towards the current player base and are not encouraging us all to find more players for them to tap into. They crank our sub-par avatars just to milk the current player base as much as they can. DEP denies that they would ever treat the community like this, but that's how I feel. If you compare how DEP treated players five years ago as compared to today, you'll see things completely different. In years past, the voice of the players meant something. Today, your voice is only good if you can infuse a couple grand into their company.

My thoughts were that if they stopped treating the current player base like shit, they wouldn't have to worry so much about finding new players to suck money from. But wait, iFurc is the going to be the savior of DEP so they need to pump money into that. My guess is that iFurc fails miserably at attracting new players. If you don't already player Furcadia, you aren't going to download it. Another waste of time, money, and resources.

I am at the point that I will not longer purchase Furcadia items. I think that players are treated horribly and I refuse to directly support a game and company that has lost its way.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Cup Ramen

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #9: June 25, 2009, 11:38:19 PM»
Emerald Flame is really the only specific member I have a problem with. Talzhemir, Felorin, every other member of DEP that I have seen in action are all generally very good people. I don't like the forums for the exact reason that it's run the way it is.

Although, I can forgive the whole "cash cow" thing to a certain point. Times are tough, and it is their source of income. Though, you'd think that they would at least put some effort into the things they're selling us. I think I already said that.

I wish I had been around 5 years ago to see how they treated us. Though, even 3 years ago it was different... I felt much more welcome then.

Lovedoll

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #10: June 25, 2009, 11:47:14 PM»
While I agree to some extents that things could run a lot more smoothly, I think a lot of people have themselves to blame for the attitude received.

I find it funny you posted this for the reasons mentioned, Narnia, because last time I checked you fit that bill just as well. May I remind you that you temp-banned me from the forums because you personally were tired of me and wished to not see me around for a while, even though the initial claim I made proved true? Pretty much your exact words; "Oh, I see you're right, but I'm banning you anyway because I feel like it - I pay the bills, I get to say what's good to go." Yet you seem pretty intent on accusing DEP - or rather, more specifically, Emerald Flame - of doing similar, if not the same.

I have seen you go around and post arguments for the sake of arguing, just to nitpick on Shinichi because your views don't mesh with his. And when behavior like that gets threads locked over and over again, you are actually surprised that people like EF get tired and shorten their fuses? Please, give me a break.

I have a major problem with how you manage these communities, and I'm pretty sure Cironir and the rest of the staff have been tired of all the extra bullshit said communities cause from alt trading scams to harassment over stolen portraits. If anything, it has been the cause of extra workload keeping staff from doing what they should do. How many times have DEP staff stepped in on these forums to remind people not to do certain things?

Yet have you seen them make a large post on their forums to gather opinions on FAM/FAZ and start boycotting you? No. They still dutifully help your communities out regardless of all the bullshit they've caused.

So what I'm seeing here is another BAWWWWW thread because you can't have your way. This isn't meant to help anyone, and you know it very well. You're being a hypocrite asshole, blaming EF of doing exactly what you're doing. Except EF doesn't ban people because she feels like it.

If you want to stop supporting DEP, then do it quietly. People can make up their own minds, threads like these just show how 'mature' you really are.

Goodbye FAM/FAZ, I don't think I'll miss it. I refuse to support a community led by an imbecile like Narnia, lmao.

Offline anathema

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #11: June 25, 2009, 11:53:07 PM»
While I agree to some extents that things could run a lot more smoothly, I think a lot of people have themselves to blame for the attitude received.

I find it funny you posted this for the reasons mentioned, Narnia, because last time I checked you fit that bill just as well. May I remind you that you temp-banned me from the forums because you personally were tired of me and wished to not see me around for a while, even though the initial claim I made proved true? Pretty much your exact words; "Oh, I see you're right, but I'm banning you anyway because I feel like it - I pay the bills, I get to say what's good to go." Yet you seem pretty intent on accusing DEP - or rather, more specifically, Emerald Flame - of doing similar, if not the same.

I have seen you go around and post arguments for the sake of arguing, just to nitpick on Shinichi because your views don't mesh with his. And when behavior like that gets threads locked over and over again, you are actually surprised that people like EF get tired and shorten their fuses? Please, give me a break.

I have a major problem with how you manage these communities, and I'm pretty sure Cironir and the rest of the staff have been tired of all the extra bullshit said communities cause from alt trading scams to harassment over stolen portraits. If anything, it has been the cause of extra workload keeping staff from doing what they should do. How many times have DEP staff stepped in on these forums to remind people not to do certain things?

Yet have you seen them make a large post on their forums to gather opinions on FAM/FAZ and start boycotting you? No. They still dutifully help your communities out regardless of all the bullshit they've caused.

So what I'm seeing here is another BAWWWWW thread because you can't have your way. This isn't meant to help anyone, and you know it very well. You're being a hypocrite asshole, blaming EF of doing exactly what you're doing. Except EF doesn't ban people because she feels like it.

If you want to stop supporting DEP, then do it quietly. People can make up their own minds, threads like these just show how 'mature' you really are.

Goodbye FAM/FAZ, I don't think I'll miss it. I refuse to support a community led by an imbecile like Narnia, lmao.

thing is, i don't think narn is really operating fam and faz for or at a profit. he's not representing a company and trying to get people to constantly buy shit.

oh, and for the record - ef does ban people because she feels like it.

Matter

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #12: June 25, 2009, 11:55:56 PM»
There is a large difference between running a non-profit community website and a business. Narnia can do what he wants because he doesn't really lose anything by turning away people he doesn't like, whereas DEP loses money.

Offline Zim

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #13: June 26, 2009, 12:00:51 AM»
There is a large difference between running a non-profit community website and a business. Narnia can do what he wants because he doesn't really lose anything by turning away people he doesn't like, whereas DEP loses money.

This. Also, you're completely off-topic, Lovedoll. This isn't about Narnia, this is about DEP. We know you have issues with him, and that's fine. However, keep it out of this thread, since this is NOT the place for it.

If you have that big of an issue with him, you're free to speak to him (civilly) or stop using the forums alltogether.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 12:03:04 AM by Zim »

I'm only mean out of necessity.

Cup Ramen

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #14: June 26, 2009, 12:20:53 AM»
There is a large difference between running a non-profit community website and a business. Narnia can do what he wants because he doesn't really lose anything by turning away people he doesn't like, whereas DEP loses money.

This. Also, you're completely off-topic, Lovedoll. This isn't about Narnia, this is about DEP. We know you have issues with him, and that's fine. However, keep it out of this thread, since this is NOT the place for it.

If you have that big of an issue with him, you're free to speak to him (civilly) or stop using the forums alltogether.

Yes please. Don't be rude.

Offline Harley

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #15: June 26, 2009, 12:57:24 AM»
What the hell is this iFurc crap they're coming out with?  I didn't watch the last town meeting.

And I also don't see Narnia trying to rally anyone against DEP.  If anything he came here asking for anyone's opinions, maybe in an attempt to provide feedback from a large portion of their population, and he even stressed not to turn this into a bashing thread.  Yes, this thread was likely stemmed from what happened on the Furcadia forums, but again, he is not doing what you claim he is.

Chill out and contribute better.

Offline Julie

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #16: June 26, 2009, 01:49:28 AM»
sorry i tl;dr'd most of this, so i apologize if i repeat things


1. i did read Hugo's post, and i agree. the digos look sloppy. (boar? what... i just don't like it. & the bug thing, ew) there are TOO MANY of them, period. more specifically, too many feral avs. those, imo, are the sloppiest i've seen. DEP cranks out new ones almost every month, c'mon. i suggest they lower the price of the digos--a permanant change--to where more people can afford them, and they'll more than likely see an increase of sales. yes, i know they have sales with incentives and shit, but i don't always want what comes WITH the sale package.

summary: quality product, fair price.

also, why can't we buy shirts and stuff separately? do we HAVE to get a life drag / special package that costs up to $100 if we just want the t-shirt? i'm also a stuffed animal dork and i'd love to buy a stuffie from DEP.

i think they had a good idea incorporating DogProxy into Furcadia itself. add more features to Furc rather than HEY LOOK ITS A NEW FERAL AVATAR OLOLOL

i'll be back to finish my post i have a bad headache

Offline anathema

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #17: June 26, 2009, 01:53:06 AM»
sorry i tl;dr'd most of this, so i apologize if i repeat things


1. i did read Hugo's post, and i agree. the digos look sloppy. (boar? what... i just don't like it. & the bug thing, ew) there are TOO MANY of them, period. more specifically, too many feral avs. those, imo, are the sloppiest i've seen. DEP cranks out new ones almost every month, c'mon. i suggest they lower the price of the digos--a permanant change--to where more people can afford them, and they'll more than likely see an increase of sales. yes, i know they have sales with incentives and shit, but i don't always want what comes WITH the sale package.

summary: quality product, fair price.

also, why can't we buy shirts and stuff separately? do we HAVE to get a life drag / special package that costs up to $100 if we just want the t-shirt? i'm also a stuffed animal dork and i'd love to buy a stuffie from DEP.

i think they had a good idea incorporating DogProxy into Furcadia itself. add more features to Furc rather than HEY LOOK ITS A NEW FERAL AVATAR OLOLOL

i'll be back to finish my post i have a bad headache

pounce could have been executed much better. for instance, even if you disable it, it /still/ starts up whenever you start a client.

Offline Masha

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #18: June 26, 2009, 02:09:55 AM»
I'll second the part on EF setting a terrible image for DEP: Such as the time she flamed the hell out of me when I gave a HELPFUL critique about their previewed new avatars. Especially because I'd just gotten done editing the unicorn at that time, and had noticed a lot of very obvious mistakes they'd made. It was really bad, honestly, and kind of shocked me. I didn't expect smiles, but an outright flame from someone so high up...

I've had other encounters with her that've left a very bitter taste in my mouth, and I feel she sets a very bad example for DEP. Some of their staff isn't perfect, but at least they try to appear nice.

This one thing I got from them once, really annoyed me. I forget exactly what it was, but it was something about redoing some avatars/parts of the game, and the response was, "It's too much work" or somesuch. That.. really struck me as off. Aren't they running a company? Pleasing their customer base shouldn't be "Too hard" or "too much work". It sounds like something a teenager would do.

Everything else I feel has already been stated, and I agree with everyone in this thread (Minus obvious BAWWW).

Offline Glory

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #19: June 26, 2009, 02:44:27 AM»
The only problems I have with DEP:

Emerald Flame:
Horrible social skills both in smaller groups and in larger events. For example...
-I and my friends were threatened to be ejected and then banned from the Valentines dream for talking too much. No, we were not using caps or breaking up our posts into more than needed. We were just a large group and aparently Emmie  feels the need to break up groups larger than three or something with immediate threat of ejection and ban.
That is not appealing to anyone, be them new player or old.

Guardians:
Also the current guardians really suck. I've had problems getting help or being threatened by them for reasons not stated in the TOS. Example...
-I was at sun festival and they didn't like my choice of alt. It was not explicit. it was not suggestive. I wasn't mocking anyone. nope. it was the initials for a country. Talking to my other friends on country named alts. Yet this one person felt the need to tell me "That isn't funny" and try to scare me by whipping out a badge. Instead I told them that I am breaking no TOS and asked what they were trying to achieve. Apearently the idea that I actually read the TOS was enough to startle this person into never talking to me again.

The rest are pretty easy to overlook and/or everyone else has said anything I was going to mention.
I don't use this website much.

Sookan

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #20: June 26, 2009, 09:15:16 AM»
only the first page and someone quit. record?

i have no ill feelings towards DEP. i like where furcadia is going, and my only quarrel is with the hideous community crawling into places i like to hangout, meaning i hardly log on any more. roll on the colour update, however slow a roll it is.

i think emerald flame started off doing a good job of moderating the forum, but now she just seems to take any excuse at having a jab at even slightly critical posts. it's starting to show that moderating is her full time job and she hasn't the patience for it anymore.

those quotes matter picked out, i hadn't seen before, and i admit it swayed my opinion of her further away, particularly this:
Quote
I'd guess by your reactions that you are around 16 and struggling with working your way through "justice" development levels.
i expect this out of certain older members of the community, never thought i'd hear it out of emmy.

i met felorin and cironir before i knew they were dep staff, and they're pretty cool cats. cironir was pretty relaxed back then, and didn't have to take shelter in a remote corner of naia. talzhemir came and sat in one of my dreams for a while and talked to me, a few years ago. i can't remember what she said, but if it was anything bad i'd have probably remembered.

i think DEP could use a "younger" influence, with staff who haven't been aged by children or marred by the nastier side of furc. sometimes when i talk to them, i can't help but feel i'm being talked down to, and having wisdom imparted on me.

Shamwow

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #21: June 26, 2009, 10:44:53 AM»
i have nothing against the staff members, mainly because i don't frequent the forums. but, this whole seeing players as cashcows irks me. i mean, 10 dollars for a digo that'll last you a month or two?


oh. and the whole cookie market and a 20 dollar port space.

obviously they think their players will throw money away. and some do.

Offline Narnia

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #22: June 26, 2009, 01:22:29 PM»
From a user who does not wish to reveal their identity in this thread:

Quote
The beautiful thing about the internet is that if you don't agree with how something is being run, you are perfectly welcome to go off and do your own thing.

This means that if Lovedoll doesn't like how Narnia is running FAM and FAZ, she can go elsewhere and start her own community.

The same applies to the Furc forums, it's censorship central and disagreeing with people, no matter how wrong or how stupid they are, is against the rules. This is part of why I rarely visit the furc forums.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

Cup Ramen

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #23: June 26, 2009, 01:56:24 PM»
Bravo, anonymous. That's a great point.

Offline Narnia

Re: DEP / Furcadia, perceptions and views.
«Reply #24: June 26, 2009, 02:08:58 PM»
I would like to point out though that my issue is not merely with the censorship of the forums (though it does play a part in my issue). The problem I have is the poor image of DEP as a company and as a staff that the community sees because of how they run their forums and the game. People, even more so recently, are turned off by this and are putting their money elsewhere.

The reality is that I can do whatever I want when I run this site because I don't have to run this site. I can close it at anytime without having much impact on my life. However, DEP needs their game because without it, they don't survive. That's why I think they need to find away to address their image issues before they run off all the new and old players.
"The views expressed in this message are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the Furcadia Alt Market, Dragon's Eye Production, or Furcadia."

 

supersaver