Author Topic: Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?  (Read 1695 times)

Offline Zodiac

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«: January 09, 2009, 06:16:14 PM»
First, let me explain what I mean by Trade Rules/Agreements.

Trade Rules/Agreements are when people trade an alt, or anything really, they make a special set of spoken rules that they expect each party to respect throughout the trade, and possibly afterward. A common one you see is "I will trade you *Alt*, but only if you agree to never sell it. f you don't want it anymore (or quit) 'give' (or sell) it back to me (sometimes for the same price)."

People often make these kind of rules when trading away alts that are apparently so special and important to them, that they are willing to give it to someone else, often times someone who is a stranger or mere acquaintance.

My purpose in this thread is to find out what people think about these rules. Do you make them? Do you agree to them? Do you follow through? Do you believe people who tell you they will?

Personally, although I may have in the past but I don't recall, I do not make these kind of silly rules in a trade. If I am going to trade an alt, then I am accepting the fact that I am handing it over to a new owner, who can do whatever they wish with it. I would HOPE that they keep it at least for a while, and maybe make a nice character out of it - but even still, I am also accepting the fact that I may see it back up for trade the next day. If I can't come to accept these facts with an alt, then I simply do not trade it, or I am extremely selective with who I might trade an alt to. When people tell me about an alt they traded, and how the person promised they will never trade it, I generally do not believe it at all. There are only a hand full of people in the alt trading market who I have 100% confidence in keeping all trade agreements.

It seems to be getting more and more common for people to start claiming it a scam when people violate a trade agreement. Somehow, I can't feel this is a true scam. I find it dishonest for people to this, yes, and I am not likely to trade with anyone who has been reported for doing so.. But, I think it is to blame on the person who sold the alt in the first place, as well. If they cared so much about what happens to the alt after it is out of their hands, they probably should not have traded it in the first place. Their first mistake, was to go against that, and trade it off. Their second mistake, was to think that they can trust the word of a person over the internet who is probably someone you don't know beyond this one trade. Even if they are making the trade with someone who they consider a friend, how often do we all see scam reports pop up where someone has been scammed by a person who they "thought was their friend"? With this in mind, and knowing that it DOES happen, you still have to ask yourself "If I have any concern with where this alt goes after it leaves me, should I really be letting it go?" No, because the fact is that no matter what rules you make and who you trade it to, even for my and my handful of people I trust completely, there is still the possibility that things may not work out how you planned, and your alt will end up in the hands of someone who you did not intend it to. If you can't accept this possibility, then don't trade the alt.

All in all, I find specific trade rules/agreements to be insanely stupid, and a waste of time on the part of the person making them. If someone gives them to me, I will uphold the rules I agree to, to the best of my ability. But, I can't promise that if three years ago you sold me the alt Banana, that here three years later I am going to remember who you are, let alone what alt you probably go by now, and that I promised I would never ever sell the alt Banana - I'm only human, I make mistakes sometimes. I don't think I have ever violated an agreement, even if unintentional, but if I did I would feel bad for having done so and do what is necessary to make amends.

I just thought I would share my thoughts on this subject. What do you think?


Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #1: January 09, 2009, 06:27:55 PM»
i don't give any uhh "rules" per se for alts that i've sold because i think that's a little bit silly and to be honest i don't give a fuck about what happens to the alts after it's out of my hands. (unless it's sold to some unruly jackass or alt whore.)

umm i follow the trade agreements that i agreed to, though, because i'd like to think i'm a respectable alt trade. if i don't think i'll use an alt any further, i'll ask the person i bought it from if i can resell it or if they want to buy it. if they say no, then oh well, it's my alt 4 life.

people who break trade agreements are really petty and shouldn't be noted as trustworthy and respectable imo.

Offline Zim

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #2: January 09, 2009, 06:27:59 PM»
First off, I agree wholeheartedly Turq.

I don't really impose trade agreements myself, really. I have said something like, I'd like to see this alt used and loved if possible, but I don't make them agree to OMGKEEPITFOREVERORGIVEIT BACKTOME if they end up buying. Though, I've had people promise me before receiving an alt that they'd never trade it, sell it, etc., knowing I probably wouldn't hand it over otherwise. Most of the times I've done this, especially giving things to people as GIFTS, I've seen them turn around and re-sell it later. Yeah, it really sucks to see, but it's now THEIR alt to do with what they want. I relinquished my 'rights' to it when I gave/sold it to them.

Conversely, I have received alts from people through trades who have asked that they never leave my hands. I've kept to my word save for one, but only AFTER I discussed it with the person I got the alt from. That way, they can't cry foul if you go through with it, and everyone is happy. I've found that it's worth the extra time to work things out with the person you made the deal with, if you remember who they were. It shows you care enough to keep them included in the deal, and that you're not going to be a dick and just go "oh it's my alt now I do what I want."

... if that made any sense at all.

I'm only mean out of necessity.

Offline Altria

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #3: January 09, 2009, 08:01:35 PM»
I've never invoked any trade agreements myself, though I recently required an alt that I was asked to trade back to the owner if I ever got bored of it, which I will certainly do.

While I agree that violating a trade agreement isn't exactly a SCAM, people should still follow them anyway because it just makes you look like an unprofessional asshole when you basically lie to someone's face.
contact: altria, meiko

Offline Julie

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #4: January 09, 2009, 08:15:25 PM»
i only have trade agreements if it's an alt i really dont want to sell, one that i paid a lot for, or one that i can see being whored around and i don't want that to happen

i dont see myself being unreasonable in my requests. i ask that they not resell the alt until the 6-month mark, when the alt will be technically considered theirs, so i wont be pulled into shit if the alt is stolen or sold and blah blah this and blah blah that happens.

i ask that if they do want to sell it, they contact me first. thats happened every time, and though i wasnt able to buy them all back, i'm glad they at least followed through with the agreement.

i think that if everyone follows what they are asked during the trade it will spare a LOT of people grief and shit they dont need. fo sho. it's simple. hell if i can follow it i dont see how other people cant.

i consider people breaking trade agreements a scam, even though its not "LOLBAN"-worthy. it can likely ruin a reputation.

Offline Douche

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #5: January 09, 2009, 08:21:49 PM»
I myself have never made any agreements for selling alts, because I either didn't care about the alt anymore or I just didn't feel attached to it enough to have any rules for it.

I have however agreed to rules before though; such as selling the alt in question back to the owner who I bought it from if I ever did think about selling it, though usually when I buy an alt now I intend to keep it for a very, very, long time, if not till I quit. O.O
Contact on: Douche, Asmund or Voorn
~Alts For Sale~

Offline Jearu

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #6: January 09, 2009, 08:28:57 PM»
I only impose a trade agreement if the alt I am selling holds a higher value to me, whether it be 'sentimental' or I just used the name as a main for however long. Chance are, if I'm selling such a name it's because I'm desperate. These 'rules' that I set are more often "You won't trade such-and-such for ___ months and if you want to, tell me so I have a chance to buy it back and/or make sure it goes to someone who won't turn around and whore it off to 20 other people." Again, this is only if it's a name that I'm not too happy on trading off.

I'm also I firm follower of agreements, if someone says "Don't trade it off", I'm not going to.. if I want to, I ask that person if I can. People generally forget about whatever alt they sold off in a month's time anyway, so chances are they won't want it back.

I agree with what's been said, violating an agreement is not a scam but you should follow anyway. It's rude to do otherwise and I highly value trading etiquette. Because of this, chances are if you violate an agreement with me, I won't be trading with you in the future. --Not like that's going to happen since I've only been trading with respected traders for a few years now or those I've traded with in the past. >/
Wanting life owl, woolie, rabben, and classics.

Offline Mala

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #7: January 09, 2009, 11:38:54 PM»
i don't think i've ever set a trade agreement before, but i have accepted a few. i really wouldn't go back on them unless the previous owner quit furc, or suddenly disappeared.

i hate seeing alts being passed around every week but it is the owners choice what to do. i don't see the reason of buying then turning around and selling a day later :/

my more sentimental alts i won't sell until i'm quitting or in desperate need of money. then i won't really care what happens to it, because seriously, i just made money for something that was free! (the only money i spend on furc is made on furc, so i've never spent anything except $10 to buy a pair of wings when i first started :P)

Offline MAU

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #8: January 10, 2009, 12:40:19 AM»
Quote from: "WORM"
umm i follow the trade agreements that i agreed to, though, because i'd like to think i'm a respectable alt trader. if i don't think i'll use an alt any further, i'll ask the person i bought it from if i can resell it or if they want to buy it. if they say no, then oh well, it's my alt 4 life.

people who break trade agreements are really petty and shouldn't be noted as trustworthy and respectable imo.

this is exactly how i feel, except i'm going to add on.

if i don't want to see someone with an alt, i'm not going to sell it. i get a few people that ask me (when i'm in a financial crunch): "why don't you sell your DNB alts?" well, because chances are i'm not going to make nearly what i paid for them in the first place, and i'm not about to cheat myself for a paltry sum of money that i'd rather go out and earn conventionally. i can sell miscellaneous NFT alts with ease, but if i have an alt that i'm so 'attached' to that i'm going to have to create a set of rules for the new buyer to adhere to, i'm going to keep it. why do that, anyway? the alt isn't yours anymore.

no one on here keeps alts for more than six months, or at least very, very few people. this isn't a calloused observation, merely an accurate one; i've been a member of the website since late 2005 and i've seen my fair share of alts come and go.

i don't mind if people tell me not to sell an alt (beforehand, please), because nine times out of ten, if i'm buying an alt it's to permanently keep. however, if someone starts telling me: "can you keep the preexisting design?" etc., i lose interest. i'm sure they have their reasons, but i'd rather not have them imposed on me.

Offline Altria

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #9: January 10, 2009, 04:54:11 AM»
You all made a lot of good points. =)

I agree with you Mauser, when you say that you're not going to sell an alt in the first place if you don't want it passed around. A lot of the time, people are either going to forget who you are, or violate the trade agreement anyway so I don't really see the point.

I deleted my NFTs off my list because they are simply that, and I would never sell them unless maybe I were about to be kicked out onto the street. And you're right, Mauser, most of us will never get what we paid for our alts if we decided to sell them.

Even if violating a trade agreement isn't considered scamming, you have to question the people who -do- violate them mindlessly for profit. They could easily turn around and go back on their word when they're going through an actual transaction.

Personally I try to stay away from trade agreements unless they're reasonable. I'm not going to keep a design I won't use, but I'm not above giving the previous owner the chance to buy an alt back if that's what they want.
contact: altria, meiko


Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #10: January 10, 2009, 12:01:34 PM»
technically i've done both, though all the alts i've ever given/traded with that agreement have returned back to me by now (because the seller decided they wanted to sell them, and in some way/shape/form the end result was i wound up with them again.)
with the exception of one, however that alt is in someone's hands that i trust completely, who i know would not break an agreement. and i'd never make this agreement unless i knew that person to be one to keep their word.

on the other hand, i have a few alts that others have asked me not to sell without contacting them first and letting them basically buy it back if at all possible, and i'm more than willing to agree and abide by those rules.

i do make this agreement at times, kind of in passing because it would be nice to know, especially if it's to be sold again really quickly.
this isn't so much a 'you must sell it back to me' thing, i'd just like to be notified, only because there's a small chance i might like to buy it back if i have the money on hand and the urge to do so, but for the most part, i don't hold my breath.

Offline Hugo

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #11: January 10, 2009, 12:28:43 PM»
I make preferences. Why make rules you can't enforce?

The only way to make a valid trade agreement is to write to Cironir at the time of the trade, have both parties agree, and keep documentation handy.



Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #12: January 10, 2009, 02:09:13 PM»
if i went into a shop and the guy told me i could have a laptop ONLY if i promised not to resell or put certain kinds of programs on it, or remove programs that were already installed, i wouldn't buy it.

i've never made one, because i don't sell alts that i don't want to see owned by faggots. i might have broken one... if i don't use the alt, i'm well within my rights to resell it, especially if i paid good money for it.

there are people i wouldn't sell my alts to though.

Offline Sheikah

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #13: January 13, 2009, 05:05:07 PM»
I think I've made & accepted a lot of verbal agreements, when it comes to alt trading.   I'm sure I have done it (albeit unintentionally) to some, but breaking trade agreements is a bitch and brings all kinds of crap that you just dont want to deal with. Because of a broken trade agreement, I lost one of my most favored mains, sigh.  
But really, I think that I make/accept trade agreements with 100% good intent, but almost always I just forget and have to be reminded by the old seller.  It might be the same with everybody else or most others, who knows.
I do like to make myself into a respectable and trustworthy trader, and often I fix my alt mistakes at my own expense, since I feel that a broken trade agreement should (naturally) be fixed by the one who messed it all up.
HOWEVER since I cannot keep tabs on people all the time (changing mains, alts go unlisted, different fam names, didnt catch the topic in time, etc.) I just try to say "this is what i prefer you do" and if they follow it, that's cool.  If they don't, oh well.

Offline SULLY

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #14: January 14, 2009, 05:44:31 PM»
ok i realize people get attached to their alts or whatever but if you SELL someone something in the REAL WORLD you really get zero input about what happens to this item in the future. once you've PAID for something, it belongs to you. i can see an agreement being hashed out if, for example, you were going to share an alt with someone.... but if you sell shit, that shit ain't yours. the idea that you somehow can control what kind of character is designed to go on the alt, how much the alt is "loved" (get fuckin real) etc is actually pretty arrogant if you think about it.

the emotional anguish i have seen expressed over "broken trade agreements" is laughable. if you're that invested, don't sell your precious main ported x10 digo'd loved and cherished forever.

i also think having your "reputation" ruined in the alt trading "business" is about as serious as missing the garbage can with your trash missile. i.e. get over it. i doubt anyone is going to use "TRUSTYWORTHY ALT TRADER" on a future job resume.

Offline Harley

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #15: January 15, 2009, 03:28:50 PM»
Do I make them?  Occasionally; there's some trust worth people out there but those are generally the people I've known for a long time and haven't had anything bad against them.  They're also generally my friends.

Do I think trade agreements should be honored?  Yes, I do, but do I expect it?  Nope.  As far as I'm concerned the product is no longer mine and in terms of legality, they aren't breaking any laws or rules.  People need to chill out about it.  I've been a long time trader; I've traded many alts and have seen them get handed off almost immediately.  It sucks but it happens.  It's the game you play.

There's nothing wrong with trade agreements but both sides need to relax.  You may do things one way but others will do it another.  People who honor trade agreements are cool, people who don't after agreeing to them aren't, but that doesn't make them scammers.  Stop tossing around the S word like it's the Scarlet Letter or something people.

Offline Cironir

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #16: January 20, 2009, 10:44:19 PM»
Quote from: "Hugo"
The only way to make a valid trade agreement is to write to Cironir at the time of the trade, have both parties agree, and keep documentation handy.

We don't support alt trading or sharing at this point in time, so there is no way of making a valid trade agreement. I cannot enforce something like that.

The closest thing you can do is to trade a "reason" with the secure commands if i.e. you trade an alt for a digo item and want that documented. That is still iffy, but at least no one can later claim they didn't get anything for their alt and it was stolen. Those "reasons" are logged by the server. But beyond that, there's no way of making a valid trade agreement that we can or would enforce.


Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #17: January 21, 2009, 02:19:01 AM»
If you're giving up the alt you obviously don't care enough for it to even have any claim on it after it's sold.

An alt that is so precious to you that you need to throw a fit over a broken agreement should have stayed in your possession. End of story. And if you can get yourself to hand the alt to someone else, you forfeit every single right. It's that simple.

Whether someone breaking an agreement is trustworthy or not doesn't even matter. If the alt means so much to you... keep it.

Offline ali

Trade "Rules/Agreements" - Do you make them?
«Reply #18: January 21, 2009, 02:00:40 PM»
i've broken trade agreements before, but just those who were like 'never sell this ever'. it's my alt, i own it, you don't tell me what to do with it. too attatched? don't want it passed around? don't trade it. it's that simple.

i do like the make agreements like 'if you can, let me buy the alt back if you want to sell it' but, i don't expect it nor should anyone else. unless someone's that devoted, but really. it's out of your hands once it's sold.