supersaver

Author Topic: is this fair?  (Read 2336 times)

Offline Blair

is this fair?
«: April 22, 2008, 08:05:19 PM»
well, this isn't really a scam or attempted scam, but really. is this fair?

i bought an alt not long ago, which is now currently up for sale. when i asked someone to check my list for an alt, they said they liked the alt and would accept to the trade. however, she told me that she wanted to use the alt's ports on another alt. i told her she could discuss this with the artists of the art and get an okay.

so, she did. it was all good until one artist of a port wanted her to pay for the port, which is $20, apparently. it had already been commissioned, and it's only being moved to another alt. now, being the kind person i am, i offered to pay off the money for the port, which i guess is unfair to me, but that's not the main concern.

basically, the artist is charging a commission fee for only moving the port to another alt. so please, give me your opinion. is this fair?
R.I.P. Samuel Richard Ernest; July 13, 1986 - October 3, 2008.


Offline Kairi

is this fair?
«Reply #1: April 22, 2008, 08:10:30 PM»
i think that's bs.
just my opinion though!

Offline Hugo

is this fair?
«Reply #2: April 22, 2008, 08:22:08 PM»
That's double-dipping. They aren't allowed to do that unless it's part of the agreement and clearly laids out and agreed to by all parties involved.

Do not pay that artist again, that is a scam.

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Offline Sync

is this fair?
«Reply #3: April 22, 2008, 08:28:27 PM»
i think that's stupid.

Offline MAU

is this fair?
«Reply #4: April 22, 2008, 08:52:20 PM»
i say there's plenty of reasonable things an artist can do in this situation. for example, asking the portrait be removed, or perhaps giving consent but request that it not be moved around any further without giving said artist proper notification again; but double-dipping is impractical and i think artists have a real racket going if they think they can do that to people without a legitimate reason.

Offline Aleu

is this fair?
«Reply #5: April 22, 2008, 11:07:08 PM»
Exactly what Hugo just said; this is double dipping, and its basically scamming you.

You payed for the port, you payed for the space. It is their art, but its utter bullshit to make you pay again to move something your ALREADY BOUGHT to a different alt. Double dipping is cheap, impractical, and just plain lazy on the artists part.

Tell her, if you're going to pay $20, that she needs to draw you another port. Because its 5 dollars to trans a port. Not $25.


I hate cheap pissants like that.

Offline Tillandsia

is this fair?
«Reply #6: April 23, 2008, 12:15:20 AM»
That is a ripoff, the artist should be thrilled that you contacted them about moving the portrait in the first place, a lot of people don't even take the time to do that.

Bam

is this fair?
«Reply #7: April 23, 2008, 08:38:22 AM»
I'm pretty much going to reiterate what has already being said by adding yet another voice to the mass of unanimous replies.

Yes, that is very unfair.
As an artist myself, I would never ask someone to pay for something twice. I've already been paid for it, and if someone has paid the artist, the artist no longer really has a say, in my opinion. That particular piece has been sold off. The artist can use it as an example and they CAN make 'deals' with the commissioner, as Hugo stated, but that must be stated BEFORE the art was commissioned. As a general rule of thumb with ports, they belong to the commissioner, so long as the commissioner pays what they owe.
Once that's over and done with, the artist may post it in places, but they may not sell it off.
I agree with Effira. I'm very happy when people contact me about where they are moving the ports I make, but it's not a requirement. It gives me a chance to update information, and thus prevent confusion, but again, I don't feel offended in the least when someone does it without talking to me. It's their art, they can use it however they want. I've already been compensated for my work, and nothing will change that, -ever-. It doesn’t matter if my prices rise, if I did it for free, if it was a gift and then we have a falling out, etc. The deal is over and done with, and to ask for anything after the fact is downright unlawful.

In short, what Hugo said hit the nail on the head. It's double dipping, and it's been discussed before in the In-Depth Talk section, but I believe the thread may have been deleted (sadly).
I’d tell them to either let you trans the port for free, or have them make you another, as Grimmy said. Anything else is absolutely ridiculous, and it gets under my skin when I hear cases like this. It's nothing short of a scam, in my opinion.

Sookan

is this fair?
«Reply #8: April 23, 2008, 12:07:22 PM»
If this wasn't outlined at the time of commission, then it being "fair" has nothing to do with it - just go right ahead and move it. What can s/he say?
It's not causing them any inconvenience, so what do they need the money for?

I don't care what people do with ports/the alts they're on after they're sold. They're pixels, not my kids! and I don't go chasing them up every time someone gets bored of them. The only time I object is when people want to resell my art. If they don't want it anymore, I'd rather them delete it and inform me so / I / can resell it.


(OT but i wouldnt pay $20 for any port, let alone just to MOVE it)

Offline anathema

is this fair?
«Reply #9: April 23, 2008, 03:55:31 PM»
Quote from: "Sookan"
The only time I object is when people want to resell my art. If they don't want it anymore, I'd rather them delete it and inform me so / I / can resell it.


th-that's also double-dipping unless you pay the person back, you realize that, right?

Offline Hugo

is this fair?
«Reply #10: April 23, 2008, 05:20:27 PM»
I'm telling you, that artist is greedy if they honestly want you to pay for something that was alreayd paid for.

If they didn't bitch when the ported alt wa ssold to you they can't bitch when it's being sold now.

You do not owe the artist a penny and no contract exists that compromises that.

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Offline Gallifreyan

is this fair?
«Reply #11: April 23, 2008, 05:43:53 PM»
As far as I'm concerned, I'd say just move the damn thing and let them and the person who paid for it know about it, although asking the commissioner (person who paid) would be honorable.

It's like, if you move house and take a made-to-order sofa with you, the person who made the sofa demands double the money for moving it to somewhere else? Or being giving/sold onto someone else?

Doesn't work in the real world.

As I said, the artist has no say over what happens to the piece after it's been paid for, as long as it adheres to the terms set before. Which seem's to be bogg standard; "don't claim as your own, don't sell on for profit, don't edit etc". Yes it was honorable to ask the artist to move it, but whomever it is demanding double the money for no more work is a complete waste of space.

Offline Aleu

is this fair?
«Reply #12: April 23, 2008, 05:48:34 PM»
Quote from: "Shorty"

i acctually didn't commission it. it was on the alt when i bought it. :\


Unless the contract with the original artist ever mentioned anything about having to pay to move the port, then you sure as hell don't have to. Unless it was organized to be this way WHEN the port was made, thats just about the only acceptable reason. Do you know who commissioned the port, ask them if any agreement was made? Did the artist include anything about it in her DA desc or such maybe? If there is no proof that the artist said the person had to pay to move the port. You have every right to move the port for free. She can't do shit about it, really. Its not art theft because it was PAYED FOR in the first place.

Also, I agree with Hugo. They obviously had no vendetta against the person selling it to you, so they have no rights to make you pay for it either. They're being a money grubbing cockroach.

Quote from: "Shorty"

edit: in case my first post was little confusing, i am selling the alt. i have agreed with another person that i would trade said alt for another alt, but they told me they wanted to transfer the ports to another alt. she asked one of the artists if she could and this is basically what came up. :\


I understood it perfectly, and that in no way affects my opinions on the matter. If the person wants to move the port, they have the right to as long as nothing in the agreement with the commissioner said that they had to pay to move it, and I honestly don't think a lot of artists even do that, unless its like a gift port or something. Even then its pretty wrong to do it.

The artist is being CHEAP.

The port was payed for already.
Move it wherever you want.

'Nuff said.

Frosty

is this fair?
«Reply #13: April 23, 2008, 05:56:49 PM»
If there was an agreement, word of mouth does nothing to confirm it anyways.
Unless there is written proof (And I don't mean the artist coming in here and stating it now- I mean original, at the time of purchase, proof) of any agreement of having to pay again should you choose to remove it from one alt and have it placed onto another - you don't have to pay squat since it was paid for originally by the commissioner.

I think you should just move it - if it bothers them so bloody much, they can go in and have it removed themselves by sending an email to furcadia for assistance.

Sookan

is this fair?
«Reply #14: April 23, 2008, 07:00:26 PM»
Quote from: "Morgan"
th-that's also double-dipping unless you pay the person back, you realize that, right?


depends? if the port was their original character with their design, of course i wouldn't,

but if it was a completely uncustomised premade, then why shouldn't i resell, so long as the commissioner agrees? if they're not going to use it, might as well find someone who will.

at least, that's what i'd prefer. no one has ever come to me asking for a refund, whether or not they used their ports, so i've never been in that position.

Offline anathema

is this fair?
«Reply #15: April 23, 2008, 08:02:23 PM»
Quote from: "Sookan"
Quote from: "Morgan"
th-that's also double-dipping unless you pay the person back, you realize that, right?


depends? if the port was their original character with their design, of course i wouldn't,

but if it was a completely uncustomised premade, then why shouldn't i resell, so long as the commissioner agrees? if they're not going to use it, might as well find someone who will.

at least, that's what i'd prefer. no one has ever come to me asking for a refund, whether or not they used their ports, so i've never been in that position.


they still paid for the premade, though. you'd be getting payment twice, which is. well. double-dipping.

Offline shelburne

is this fair?
«Reply #16: April 23, 2008, 08:08:47 PM»
Quote
Do not pay that artist again, that is a scam.
http://altmarket.net/index.php?topic=20789.0 nice alts for cheap ok promise

Offline Mychelle

is this fair?
«Reply #17: April 23, 2008, 08:12:45 PM»
Quote from: "Hugo"
That's double-dipping. They aren't allowed to do that unless it's part of the agreement and clearly laids out and agreed to by all parties involved.

Do not pay that artist again, that is a scam.
Im letting my alts rot. So dont ask.

Offline Tonks

is this fair?
«Reply #18: April 23, 2008, 08:55:57 PM»
Quote from: "Mychelle"
Quote from: "Hugo"
That's double-dipping. They aren't allowed to do that unless it's part of the agreement and clearly laids out and agreed to by all parties involved.

Do not pay that artist again, that is a scam.

Offline Masha

is this fair?
«Reply #19: April 24, 2008, 01:53:42 AM»
Quote from: "Freaks"
Quote from: "Mychelle"
Quote from: "Hugo"
That's double-dipping. They aren't allowed to do that unless it's part of the agreement and clearly laids out and agreed to by all parties involved.

Do not pay that artist again, that is a scam.

Offline Marvel

is this fair?
«Reply #20: April 24, 2008, 03:37:15 AM»
Quote from: "Tachs"
Quote from: "Freaks"
Quote from: "Mychelle"
Quote from: "Hugo"
That's double-dipping. They aren't allowed to do that unless it's part of the agreement and clearly laids out and agreed to by all parties involved.

Do not pay that artist again, that is a scam.

Digital Love

is this fair?
«Reply #21: April 24, 2008, 06:47:50 AM»
Wow, lots of un-needed (and non-contributing) quotes there. Ahem.

Have you made any progress/decision on this, Shorty? Talked to artist about it again or told them you're not paying and the port is just being moved?

In any case, don't let that person step on your or your friend/the person you're selling/trading the alt to. It's an artist's repsonbility to make the terms clear before the commission is done. If they didn't do that, then you have no obligation to pay anything whatsoever.

I'm not sure on whether this would be okay or not, but perhaps you can mention the artist's name? I'm pretty sure that a lot of people would be against commissioning someone with such an attitude - it IS in a way considered a scam after all! If it would be inappropriate to post it in public, maybe PM it to me? I'm curious.

Offline Mychelle

is this fair?
«Reply #22: April 24, 2008, 07:42:51 AM»
Quote from: "Sadil"
Wow, lots of un-needed (and non-contributing) quotes there. Ahem.


Sorry if some of what we would rather say has already been said and we were simply agreeing with it? Everyone one comes in and gives their 2cents, maybe some of us just wanted to agree with what had already been typed out other then giving the exact same opinion only typed out a bit more wordly to make it look like we took the effort.

Whats been said on this subject has already been said three, four, five times over. Got an opinion on how someone else comes into the thread to give their opinion then either take it to that person or keep it to yourself. If anything that comment was non-contributing.
Im letting my alts rot. So dont ask.

Offline Hugo

is this fair?
«Reply #23: April 24, 2008, 11:04:28 AM»
Stop quoting my typo.  :cry:

Anyway I suppose we can lock the thread since the response is unanimous.

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Offline Mychelle

is this fair?
«Reply #24: April 24, 2008, 11:17:34 AM»
Quote from: "Hugo"
Stop quoting my typo.  :cry:

Anyway I suppose we can lock the thread since the response is unanimous.


Good point. I'll do that now. Sorry for quoting you again? lol
Im letting my alts rot. So dont ask.